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Why I Still Use Vim

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41–50 of 112 posts

Re: Why I Still Use Vim

#41

I really wanted to like Atom, but it always felt unfinished and clunky with crashes/freezing/locking becoming more of a regular occurrence with the more plugins or extensions you use. It's one saving grace is that I thought Sublime was a bit bulky/memory hungry, but Atom gave me a new found appreciation for Sublime which I'm now back in love with!

Atom claims to have code folding, but (despite having syntax highlighting) the code folding function works naively off of indents, not syntax, so you're out of luck working on any codebase with less-than-meticulous indentation, zero-indent comments, etc. Unfortunately, IIRC, Sublime does exactly the same thing. It's really frustrating. I haven't been able to find a good all-purpose Mac programmer's editor with workin…

Unless you use Python and Saas. In which case indentation is always perfect.

Re: Why I Still Use Vim

#42
post #5

Favorite stance: > Or, well, just anything that is not a web browser masquerading as a text editor.

Full quote was:

> If not Vim, then maybe Emacs. Or, well, just anything that is not a web browser masquerading as a text editor.

I'll just leave this here: https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/w3

;)

Re: Why I Still Use Vim

#43
Did he just basically copy Joe Allen's Text Editor Performance Comparison[1] (which is already somewhat obsolete) without attribution? Wow.

1: https://github.com/jhallen/joes-sandbox/tree/master/editor-p...

---- EDIT: I'm sorry, there's a mention at the end of the article. Either I didn't noticed it before or he added it after this comment.

Re: Why I Still Use Vim

#44
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of shady, I don't think I will write on this platform anymore.

What's shady about asking people to pay for content? It seems like it's pretty much out in the open so you can take it or leave it, not secret or covert or shady in any way.

Nothing is wrong with paying writers. But I do have a problem with the Medium bait-and-switch. They offered a great interface for writing and publishing content that is free, and then years later start charging for access to that content after millions of people have published articles.

Re: Why I Still Use Vim

#45
I am a fan of VIM but I find the whole discussion around Electron rather amusing - almost as if we need to justify our need for regular punishment by reinventing the wheel. It is fun to do things from scratch but it will not get you there fast.

Yes, Electron apps are a bloat considering that each one of them brings its entire runtime like games, and you know that most games will exceed several Gs of disc space and memory. The actual app that runs under electron is probably a few KB up to several megabytes of packed JS. Now consider statically linking the entire Cococa framework and other supporting frameworks in your app. Why would you do that when the OS is doing all the heavy lifting for you? Well, Electron is not part of your OS so if you develop with it you need to absorb the cost. The cost of disk space and memory - don't forget that. The OS does a lot of clever stuff to minimize your memory footprint. For example, DLL code is actually shared across all processes and mapped into each process/thread virtual memory space. This alone is a lot of optimisation taken for granted.

Ignoring decades of progress for the sake premature optimisation is stupid. The web is a reality and there is a lot of investment behind it. What needs to happen is for browser and OS vendors to offer means to execute web apps as part of the OS with all the optimisations needed for it to happen. Windows is able to run web apps (HTA) under the context of an isolated IE using COM but no other mainstream OS does as far as I know. Do you think that having in kernel virtual machine crazy? This feature already exists in all major kernels and your GPU drivers as well. You just don't see it because it is abstracted for away for most development tasks.

So yes, vim is nice and Electron is a bloat. But that only stands if you ignore the fact that the modern browser is effectively a modern OS. So think of Electron apps in the same way you think of docker containers. It is a snapshot of executable code - all the code you will need to run your app and it is portable across OS-es. That is a huge order to fill and it is done almost effortlessly.

Re: Why I Still Use Vim

#46

People can mount whatever defense they like of Electron, but the bottom line is, I think twice before I adopt any new Electron app. My daily drivers are a desktop replacement with 8gb of ram and an ultra-portable machine with 4gb. On 4gb it only takes a couple of Electron apps to eat half of my ram or more. Factor in the OS and a browser or two and it's already swapping. These are often just chat apps or something, t…

As far as I've seen, most electron-based applications do not share the electron runtime, but bundle everything they need into the installer. So yeah, we all are basically holding two or more copies of slightly different version of the electron runtime.

Re: Why I Still Use Vim

#47
post #43

Did he just basically copy Joe Allen's Text Editor Performance Comparison[1] (which is already somewhat obsolete) without attribution? Wow. 1: https://github.com/jhallen/joes-sandbox/tree/master/editor-p... ---- EDIT: I'm sorry, there's a mention at the end of the article. Either I didn't noticed it before or he added it after this comment.

It's there at the end.

Re: Why I Still Use Vim

#48
But how does this scale for subsequent files? Initial RAM is high for Electron apps, we all know this. But if it's not ramping, then the same is true for most IDEs.

Re: Why I Still Use Vim

#49
post #14

This article implies the differences matter. Nope, sorry, the conveniences of VSCode are worth the "cost" for me. I have 32 gigs of RAM and the time I spend opening files doesn't register compared to the time I spend writing or reading code. I do wonder whether the measurements take the base overhead of each editor into account. Do the numbers represent the use per file or the total for the file plus the entire app?

Which features of VSCode in particular do you like?

For me, the most awesome part is the debugging experience out of the box. If you're programming for NodeJs (or other supported languages, with a bit of configuration), you can click on the side to add a breakpoint and hit F5 to run, step over your code and hover variable names to see what they hold, evaluate expressions to change things and stuff like that. Still in the JS world, VS Code uses the TypeScript engine to infer variable types and detect type errors, which by itself catches a lot of bugs.

These features aren't unique to the JS language though. Extentions do have access to the APIs that implement these features, so you already have them available for most languages (with different levels of quality/completeness).

Re: Why I Still Use Vim

#50

As far as I can see from this article, Sublime text is faster than vim. That's astonishing considering that Sublime uses GUI and vim is a console editor. I also like vim, but Sublime + vintage ( vim-mode ) works good and you have the benefits of both worlds.

This is meaningless if the author doesn't show us their vimrc. (Neo)vim cold starts in 60 milliseconds for me (granted, I have an SSD). In any case, 4 seconds is super abnormal and it sounds like they have loaded their vimrc with every other plugin.
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