As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting • Hacker News Board

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#281

Post by ataturk » Wed, Jan 03, 2018, 7:40 PM UTC

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #186

throwaway7312 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Trump and others don’t recognize is that the American university system is a distributed system of factories that manufacture knowledge, innovation and the future. There is another side to this. And that is that the American university system has a distinct political agenda that is opposed to the interests of the Trump-supporting half of the American electorate. It is a bad thing for innovation when there are fewe…

Disclaimer: I'm not American. But my view is that the American right has placed itself outside the Overton window of anyone with a higher education. For example, the President is a climate change denier. How do you expect those views to be represented in universities when they fly in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence? In most countries, this problem doesn't exist because parties with ideas equivalent to th…

There's a difference between being skeptical about all things and being a "climate change denier" which is just a label to batter opponents with.

Science, first and foremost, must remain objective. All too many times in the past humanity has learned that everything we believe ended up being wrong. In fact, that is a law of humanity--what we perceive is wrong, what we measure is flawed, how we measure and deduce is subject to change.

Thinking evolves via a marketplace of ideas and experimentation, not because one group or another tells us all this is how it is.

Copernicus was not believed about Heliocentrism. Galileo was put on trial for his beliefs about the same issue.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#282

Post by ataturk » Wed, Jan 03, 2018, 7:50 PM UTC

whatever_dude wrote: post #25

brohoolio wrote: post #16

Trump is going to ruin the American economy. Attack universities by discouraging foreign students. Cut federal funding for research. Encourage political attacks on universities. The most damaging will be not forgiving student loans from people who went to scam universities, like Trump university. What Trump and others don’t recognize is that the American university system is a distributed system of factories that man…

What the current White House administration is doing right now is akin to the short-term-gain-focused changes one would do in a company to please investors who want to short: * Remove or shrink employee (citizens) benefits * Stop investing on R&D (education), just ride on what you currently have * Alienate potential customer base and partners (other nations) * Drive away top performing employees (citizens, entreprene…

I wholeheartedly disagree with your appraisal. But feel free to invest your money based on those assumptions because I'll be happy to take it from you.

How is Trump removing citizen bnefits? Healthcare costs spiraled out of control under Obama. 100%+ increases!

R&D? I have no idea where you're getting that from. Government shouldn't fund every single thing that every single person wants.

Alienating other nations? No. Trump has made it clear that Americans will put our own interests front and center going forwards. Obama never once stood up for this country. Never. Once.

Drive away top performing employees? Please. The rich people in SV and NYC are getting richer every second no matter who is in office.

Unattractive to new hires? Putting American citizens interests at the front of the line.

Increase long term debt. Stay tuned on that one, I have an inkling that the debt is going to fall soon.

What is not going to be pretty are all the snowflake meltdowns over the next few years when each of you is proven wrong continuously.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#283

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 03, 2018, 8:08 PM UTC

Helmet wrote: post #234

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the Arts sure doesn't bring in any great and amazing new works, nor does it really make money. So yeah, trash it and most "liberal arts". They're not STEM, and they're a sinkhole for money.... (Karl Marx warned of this, as capitalism only sees value in what produces more value. Artistic and liberal arts value is harder to calculate, thus pointless)

Liberal arts education is essential if our goal is to have a well-rounded, educated, ethical, and cultured citizenry. But, of course, this would mean that the liberal arts would have to actually go back to teaching the Western canon, and not simply using their positions as educators to repudiate Western and European art and culture at any turn, to radicalize students and spew their ideological fantasies, to engage in…

[deleted]

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#284

Post by tgarma1234 » Wed, Jan 03, 2018, 8:11 PM UTC

klipt wrote: post #280

tgarma1234 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having graduated from high school in 1989 I can assure you that people have been saying this since as long as I have been a teenager. It used to be that people were obsessed with how Japan was going to suddenly dominate the American economy with their extraordinary technological prowess. It seems like what people really want is to encourage American kids to study science and math and they are using the boogey man sto…

America has had an exceptional century thanks to exceptional circumstances: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/the-old-days But no country is dominant forever.

I think it's a mistake to think of "countries" in this way. America has never helped most of the people in it get good educations. I don't personally want to be "dominant" in this nationalistic way. So it doesn't bother me at all. If you are interested in math, study math.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#285

Post by bjourne » Wed, Jan 03, 2018, 8:19 PM UTC

throwaway7312 wrote: post #140

brohoolio wrote: post #16

Trump is going to ruin the American economy. Attack universities by discouraging foreign students. Cut federal funding for research. Encourage political attacks on universities. The most damaging will be not forgiving student loans from people who went to scam universities, like Trump university. What Trump and others don’t recognize is that the American university system is a distributed system of factories that man…

>> Trump and others don’t recognize is that the American university system is a distributed system of factories that manufacture knowledge, innovation and the future. There is another side to this. And that is that the American university system has a distinct political agenda that is opposed to the interests of the Trump-supporting half of the American electorate. It is a bad thing for innovation when there are fewe…

> There is another side to this. And that is that the American university system has a distinct political agenda that is opposed to the interests of the Trump-supporting half of the American electorate.

Do you have any evidence for that? What is the agenda of the American university system? What is the interests of the Trump-supporting half of the American electorate?

If a lot of academics think Donald Trump is dumb as fuck, it does not necessarily mean that there is a problem in academia. It could also be so that Donald Trump is dumb as fuck.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#286

Post by newen » Wed, Jan 03, 2018, 8:49 PM UTC

This is also due to Obama era scholarships/money provided to refugee students aren't done by the Trump administration anymore. The universities were indirectly subsidized by the US government and aren't done so anymore.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#287

Post by glbrew » Wed, Jan 03, 2018, 10:01 PM UTC

Apparently I'm the only one who is happy about this. I went through undergrad/grad school just as the explosion of foreign students occurred. Don't get me wrong, I'm open minded and liberal but I saw class rooms go from a dozen English speaking students with close connections to the professor to rooms stuffed beyond the fire code specifications of 50+ students who I couldn't even communicate with, not to mention the precipitous fall in education quality associated with this transition. Foreign money and skill is nice but I saw top tier programs go to shit to cram in a bunch of high paying mediocre foreign students. Domestic students deserve access to high quality education, and I personally saw major US programs fail at that.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#288

Post by John_Cena » Thu, Jan 04, 2018, 12:32 AM UTC

sumedh wrote: post #173

conjecTech wrote: post #89

This can be largely explained by the drop in birth rates in China associated with the one child policy. The number of college-aged Chinese in 2020 will be roughly half what it was a decade before[1]. People have seen this coming for years. The administrators blaming this on politics are most likely scapegoating for their poor planning. [1] https://www.indexmundi.com/china/age_structure.html

> The administrators blaming this on politics are most likely scapegoating for their poor planning. Couple of people I know in India right now are looking at going to Canada, Aus or NZ because they are uncertain what is going on under Trump. 5 to 10 years back almost everyone in my friend circle in India wanted to go to the US.

Is it wrong that I am hopeful for my own job prospects going forward if this is the case?

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#289

Post by please_be_real » Thu, Jan 04, 2018, 4:22 AM UTC

whatever_dude wrote: post #25

brohoolio wrote: post #16

Trump is going to ruin the American economy. Attack universities by discouraging foreign students. Cut federal funding for research. Encourage political attacks on universities. The most damaging will be not forgiving student loans from people who went to scam universities, like Trump university. What Trump and others don’t recognize is that the American university system is a distributed system of factories that man…

What the current White House administration is doing right now is akin to the short-term-gain-focused changes one would do in a company to please investors who want to short: * Remove or shrink employee (citizens) benefits * Stop investing on R&D (education), just ride on what you currently have * Alienate potential customer base and partners (other nations) * Drive away top performing employees (citizens, entreprene…

you realize everyone got tax breaks and not just millionaires? literally every citizen in america? the fact that you lie about that point makes your entire post worthless

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#290

Post by please_be_real » Thu, Jan 04, 2018, 4:25 AM UTC

pm90 wrote: post #210

throwaway7312 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Climate change isn't a very good example. Individuals who subscribe to anthropogenic global warming and individuals who are skeptical of it have equal levels of scientific comprehension. [1] It's more accurate to note that either side of the political divide in the United States has its share of unscientific beliefs. On the right, you have things like creationism and anti-vaxxers. On the left, you have things like ge…

The right and left are not equivalent. While anti-GMO may be a personal preference for many hipsters, its most certainly not the defining agenda of the left. Also the left seem to be much more willing to change their beliefs in the face of scientific evidence, whereas the Right is more theology, faith and other such nonsense. So don't say they're equivalent, because they simply aren't.

the left refuses to acknowledge that a fetus is a life... yet they are still pro abortion. so whats that mean for your claim of "scientific evidence" ?