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As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

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Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#111

Post by fellellor »

quickben wrote: post #93
fellellor wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>go back home for a job Haha. Not really. American salaries, standards of living are among the highest/best in the planet. Plus an abundance of economic opportunities and relatively low discrimination compared to what one may face in other developed countries. These are the only factors which decide whether a family sends their kid to the US for higher ed or not. The degrees themselves aren't worth much at all. Unles…

My old country gave to whoever returns home with a foreign degree up to 95% salary match from what they would have made if they stayed. You can rack $100k USD, in a country where average yearly salary is $2k and living expenses are nil. When you talk about 'standard of living', imagine what standard of living you'd have in USA at 50x average salary. If I'm not mistaken that would be around 1-2 million a year. Add to…

Your country sounds highly unusual. Are these government jobs? Talking about naivety, this certainly doesn't seem like it's true generally.

Also note that I said US offers a lot of economic opportunities not that other countries didn't. And I was talking from the perspective of a person from a developing country looking to travel to a developed country. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#112

Post by dragonwriter »

mc32 wrote: post #103
dragonwriter wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I concede it look like DACA has some time requirements most F-1 students would not satisfy (in addition to the entry age req) Well, plus if you are in a legal status, you aren't eligible for DACA, plud DACA has been closed to new applicants, so literally no one can qualify for it newly now. > Still a non insignificant amount came here on non-immigrant visas also (tourist visas). So? > In any event, there may be som…

If I were an international student, that's the incongruence I would challenge right there: "residency is, however, incompatible with certain immigration statuses that are nonetheless compatible with study, including F-1." I'd say give me the same benefits -or at least in-state tuition.

> I'd say give me the same benefits -or at least in-state tuition.

So, you'd declare your intent to establish permanent residency in the State (and therefore the US)?

That sounds a lot like having immigration intent, which can be a basis for revoking your F-1 status.

Not being a resident is the deal you sign on for with F-1 status. If you'd rather take your chances immigrating illegally, spending three years attending California high school, and then trying to go to UC on in-state tuition as a deportable undocumented immigrant when you are qualified to instead get an F-1, well, sure, you can try. No sane person with the option is going to choose that, though. An F-1 with non-resident tuition is a much better deal.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#113

Post by tanilama »

mc32 wrote: post #92
tanilama wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

U overstated it vastly...In China, UK degrees got so inflated, many of which being one year master, that they are pretty useless now.Oversea working experience is still valued

While it may be true with regard to UK Unis, I'm not sure it's applicable to US schools.

Obviously depends on WHICH schools you attend. Even in case of UK, if you went to Oxford/Cambridge, people would still recognize it. However, studying in some random UK/US schools won't bring you too much benefits as you might think.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#114

Post by fellellor »

mc32 wrote: post #109
fellellor wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, you seem to be missing this factor in all of your arguments. The currencies of all the countries you mentioned trade very unfavorably (maybe not the right word) with respect to the USD. So even if the cost of a higher ed degree seems like a lot to US locals, that cost is a few orders of magnitude higher from the perspective of a family considering this investment for their ward. The only way this degree is worth…

You may have a valid point --I will not contest that. However, what you say there was not the experience related to me by international students. Maybe I knew atypical international students. As I understood it, for the most cases, a degree from here afforded them better chances back home at some BIG CO., given they were unable to attend elite home country Uni (National Uni of xx]

>a degree from here afforded them better chances back home at some BIG CO

Again, you don't need the foreign degree if the BIG CO is hiring locally anyway. Sure it makes you stand out, but your net gain is very little compared to someone who got educated locally as well.

Sorry about belaboring this point.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#115

Post by refurb »

dragonwriter wrote: post #26
junkscience2017 wrote: post #2

Schools like Cal are still offering too many slots to foreign students despite being chartered to serve the families of taxpayers who provide their funding. The same issue will eventually plague Canadian schools...foreign students will simply pay more directly for tuition even though taxpayers are still the core source of funds. For private universities, no one should care..they should select students from wherever t…

> Schools like Cal are still offering too many slots to foreign students despite being chartered to serve the families of taxpayers who provide their funding. Taxpayers don't provide their funding, taxpayers provide a partial subsidy of the costs associated with in-state students; this is why their is reduced tuition for such students.

I fail to see how the OP was incorrect at all. A subsidy is funding.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#116

Post by dragonwriter »

freeone3000 wrote: post #56
dragonwriter wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Schools like Cal are still offering too many slots to foreign students despite being chartered to serve the families of taxpayers who provide their funding. Taxpayers don't provide their funding, taxpayers provide a partial subsidy of the costs associated with in-state students; this is why their is reduced tuition for such students.

Okay, taxpayers provide part of their funding, the remainder of which is through donations and student fees.

> Okay, taxpayers provide part of their funding, the remainder of which is through donations and student fees.

Taxpayers provide part (a declining share and declining real per-student amount) of the funding for in-state students. Why would this subsidy have any bearing on the number of out-of-state slots, which are fully (or more than) self-funded? If taxpayers want more in-state slots, then the taxpayers can fund more in-state slots.

> the remainder of which is through donations and student fees

And research contracts, IP and publishing revenue, etc.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#117

Post by dragonwriter »

refurb wrote: post #115
dragonwriter wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Schools like Cal are still offering too many slots to foreign students despite being chartered to serve the families of taxpayers who provide their funding. Taxpayers don't provide their funding, taxpayers provide a partial subsidy of the costs associated with in-state students; this is why their is reduced tuition for such students.

I fail to see how the OP was incorrect at all. A subsidy is funding.

Yes, but “their funding” is not the same as “a part—and a declining part at that—of their funding”.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#118

Post by sandworm101 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #53
lewis500 wrote: post #40

There are really three different downsides to this. First, the foreign students cross-subsidize the locals' education. There are large fixed costs to running a university and these students pay way above their marginal costs. So now the universities have fewer resources; hence cutting the newspaper funding etc. Second, the foreign students increase the schools' reputations and can collaborate with the faculty. Resear…

> In my own PhD program, the productivity of the Americans was much lower than the foreigners. I think the bias has swung way too far the other way. Racism against Americans is still racism. Also, this applies mainly to undergrads (full paying students), not PhD students who are generally fully funded.

>> Racism against Americans is still racism.

"Americans" is now a race? How about Texans or Australians? If I say that I hate Australians because of their silly accents, am I now a racist? Race and national citizenship are very different concepts.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#119

Post by tanilama »

mc32 wrote: post #9
junkscience2017 wrote: post #2

Schools like Cal are still offering too many slots to foreign students despite being chartered to serve the families of taxpayers who provide their funding. The same issue will eventually plague Canadian schools...foreign students will simply pay more directly for tuition even though taxpayers are still the core source of funds. For private universities, no one should care..they should select students from wherever t…

A question I would have, if I were an international student living in say, California, is why would I pay tuition as a legal immigrant on say a F-1 visa, but if I came in illegally, I would have a chance at getting a subsidy[1]? Could they just pretent to be illegal for the subsidy and then when done just go home on your F-1. It's not like the school would check or even less ask the feds about status. [1] https://stu…

> is why would I pay tuition as a legal immigrant on say a F-1 visa, but if I came in illegally

You need a bank statement in order to get your I20.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#120

Post by [deleted] »

chroem- wrote: post #55
curiousgal wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am yet to meet a single American who didn’t have access to college because of an international student. High tuition and fees are always the number one culprit.

Come to Washington State. The University of Washington's preference to international students over in-state has become so lopsided that the state legislature has been threatening to cut off funding and force the school to change its name. Most of my in-state friends were denied admission into their majors during undergrad.

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