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As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

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Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#61

Post by dragonwriter »

mc32 wrote: post #9
junkscience2017 wrote: post #2

Schools like Cal are still offering too many slots to foreign students despite being chartered to serve the families of taxpayers who provide their funding. The same issue will eventually plague Canadian schools...foreign students will simply pay more directly for tuition even though taxpayers are still the core source of funds. For private universities, no one should care..they should select students from wherever t…

A question I would have, if I were an international student living in say, California, is why would I pay tuition as a legal immigrant on say a F-1 visa, but if I came in illegally, I would have a chance at getting a subsidy[1]? Could they just pretent to be illegal for the subsidy and then when done just go home on your F-1. It's not like the school would check or even less ask the feds about status. [1] https://stu…

> why would I pay tuition as a legal immigrant on say a F-1 visa

No such thing as a “legal immigrant on an F-1 visa”, as an F-1 is a non-immigrant visa and F-1s are non-resident aliens legally prohibited from establishing a US domicile.

> if I came in illegally, I would have a chance at getting a subsidy

The only people who came in illegally who can be considered residents for UC tuition purposes—as stated on the page you link—are those who are qualified for and have been granted status under DACA (a policy established in 2012), which means you had to be brought over as a child under 16, and must have lived in the US since 2007, or those that have attended 3 years of California high school.

> Could they just pretent to be illegal for the subsidy and then when done just go home on your F-1. It's not like the school would check or even less ask the feds about status

Yes, if you claim to be in DACA status, the state will check your DACA status. If you claim to be an undocumented student that attended three years of California high school, they will check your high school records. If you are a foreign student on an F-1, neither one of those is going to work.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#62

Post by tanilama »

anonymous5133 wrote: post #58
tanilama wrote: post #31

Well, why come to a country that is openly hostile to you after all?

$$$ is why

Unless u get a job. It is pretty hard by itself, even harder under Trump. As an investment, its return is diminishing.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#63

Post by bsder »

foobarbazetc wrote: post #18

The only surprising thing about this article was how lowly paid a language professor is. $47,000? What?

Welcome to employment outside of STEM.

The worst part is that a good writing professor is arguably more valuable to the career prospects of an engineer than all the engineering courses.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#64

Post by janekm »

fellellor wrote: post #57
mc32 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As other have pointed out, this is mostly about the schools losing full-tuition international students, ie.e "International students pay double the $6,445 tuition of Missouri residents" --which is insane. I mean, it's insane for in-state students to have to shell out 6.5 thousand a year for higher ed... The international students are typically those kids of parents who are perhaps middle to upper middle class in a fo…

>go back home for a job Haha. Not really. American salaries, standards of living are among the highest/best in the planet. Plus an abundance of economic opportunities and relatively low discrimination compared to what one may face in other developed countries. These are the only factors which decide whether a family sends their kid to the US for higher ed or not. The degrees themselves aren't worth much at all. Unles…

You underestimate the value of an “overseas” degree in “developing” countries like China. A student who comes back to China with a US/UK degree will get preferential access to first-tier city resident permits, direct financial “housing” benefits from the city, a good job and faster career advancement and more besides. Some of those benefits are starting to get scaled back but it’s still a big advantage.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#65

Post by fellellor »

seibelj wrote: post #41
foobarbazetc wrote: post #18

The only surprising thing about this article was how lowly paid a language professor is. $47,000? What?

Seems right to me, given the job prospects for someone whose talent is speaking two languages. Do you think the market for Italian / English specialists is super hot?

Leaving everything to be decided by market factors definitely has it's flaws. There should be room for authorities\patrons to intervene and prevent a certain skill set from being wiped out because it doesn't make business sense to preserve them.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#66

Post by mc32 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #61
mc32 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A question I would have, if I were an international student living in say, California, is why would I pay tuition as a legal immigrant on say a F-1 visa, but if I came in illegally, I would have a chance at getting a subsidy[1]? Could they just pretent to be illegal for the subsidy and then when done just go home on your F-1. It's not like the school would check or even less ask the feds about status. [1] https://stu…

> why would I pay tuition as a legal immigrant on say a F-1 visa No such thing as a “legal immigrant on an F-1 visa”, as an F-1 is a non-immigrant visa and F-1s are non-resident aliens legally prohibited from establishing a US domicile. > if I came in illegally, I would have a chance at getting a subsidy The only people who came in illegally who can be considered residents for UC tuition purposes—as stated on the pag…

I concede it look like DACA has some time requirements most F-1 students would not satisfy (in addition to the entry age req)

Still a non insignificant amount came here on non-immigrant visas also (tourist visas).

In any event, there may be some meat for a class action by international students who may not want to pay the "full-fare" price they pay, given otherwise international students (on expired tourist visas) are eligible for state subsidy.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#67

Post by fellellor »

mc32 wrote: post #59
fellellor wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>go back home for a job Haha. Not really. American salaries, standards of living are among the highest/best in the planet. Plus an abundance of economic opportunities and relatively low discrimination compared to what one may face in other developed countries. These are the only factors which decide whether a family sends their kid to the US for higher ed or not. The degrees themselves aren't worth much at all. Unles…

If the degrees didn't matter, then they would not send their kids here in the first place. Most of the folks I ran into liked America but loved their countries of origin and looked forward to getting a job and doing well. I was not talking elite students (which is different from students at elite unis who can be a mixed bag)

Obviously you don't stop loving your home country just because you chose to immigrate. Unless your home country is some hellish warzone which China isn't.

That still doesn't mean you wouldn't rather settle in the US when you went through all the trouble to get educated there, in most cases.

There is absolutely no shortage of excellent universities in China.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#68

Post by kalleboo »

chroem- wrote: post #55
curiousgal wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am yet to meet a single American who didn’t have access to college because of an international student. High tuition and fees are always the number one culprit.

Come to Washington State. The University of Washington's preference to international students over in-state has become so lopsided that the state legislature has been threatening to cut off funding and force the school to change its name. Most of my in-state friends were denied admission into their majors during undergrad.

I don't know how things work in Washington, but the last article I read on California state schools (where you hear similar complaints) was that the international students were actually funding more in-state students with their higher tuitions, since the state itself wasn't funding the schools enough. So, lots of international students yes, but that also meant the school could afford to host more in-state students than if you got rid of the international students.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#69

Post by greglindahl »

mc32 wrote: post #54
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The international students are typically those kids of parents who are perhaps middle to upper middle class in a foreign country (JP, KR, TW, IN, CN, UK, AU, etc) who want to send their kids to an American school and get an "American" degree and go back home for a job Source? Most of the international students I went to school with are still here, working.

I don't have stats but given that in order to stay after an F-1 you need to have job lined up and getting a job as an F-1 is not easy and in addition seeing the vast majority of F-1 students I was acquainted with in UNI went back home after graduation, I would have to suggest the great majority do go back home, generally speaking.

There's a selection effect, but I think that everyone who's worked in Silicon Valley knows plenty of people who stayed on F-1 visas. So there's an anecdote that's the reverse of yours.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#70

Post by mc32 »

tanilama wrote: post #62
anonymous5133 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$$$ is why

Unless u get a job. It is pretty hard by itself, even harder under Trump. As an investment, its return is diminishing.

I can see the difficulty of getting in to make a degree even more valuable in some countries.
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