with luck, mentioning NSA on your resume results in an immediate trip to the discard pile during applications at most tech companies.
if you're going to invade privacy on a massive scale, you better be ready for the consequences.
NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg
21–30 of 547 posts
Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
No one cares about government pay scales. You don't have to work FOR the government to work for the government. Many top NSA specialists work for contractor firms and do earn tremendous compensation from their employers. Those employers contract with our government for totally uncapped contract sums. Obviously the contracts have to be reviewed for budget and capex limitations but otherwise no such thing as a salary c…
> Those employers contract with our government for totally uncapped contract sums. No, they don't. Billing rates are fixed based on the experience and education levels of the people working on the contract. If the government says they won't pay more than, say, $250/hour for a security expert that is all the contractor is going to get, and that in turn limits the amount the contractor can make. Pay at government contr…
You have glossed over and simplified how contracts and billing rates work, your synopsis is not accurate.
Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg
#23It seems like it's pretty hard for the government to compete with private industry in compensation. Federal pay grades are capped by Congress, and the top grade is around ~$150k a year [1]. And note that since it's the top of the scale, you have to start people off lower so that there is salary progression. Pretty sure a top cryptographer or security expert should be worth several times that, especially if they are a…
That top pay grade is less than the starting compensation for PhD's at the big tech co's. Not to mention free food, potential for career growth, and an open non-militaristic culture where you can wear a hoodie instead of a tie. I honestly don't understand why someone would work for the NSA given the choice.
Some people are genuinely patriotic.
Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
No one cares about government pay scales. You don't have to work FOR the government to work for the government. Many top NSA specialists work for contractor firms and do earn tremendous compensation from their employers. Those employers contract with our government for totally uncapped contract sums. Obviously the contracts have to be reviewed for budget and capex limitations but otherwise no such thing as a salary c…
> Those employers contract with our government for totally uncapped contract sums. No, they don't. Billing rates are fixed based on the experience and education levels of the people working on the contract. If the government says they won't pay more than, say, $250/hour for a security expert that is all the contractor is going to get, and that in turn limits the amount the contractor can make. Pay at government contr…
That’s just one type of consulting. If you pay T&M for a guy in GSA schedule or whatever, they’ll bill him as a Architect level 12 at $250/hr. Or a higher scale for a different position.
The employee’s compensation is more about the number of pimps^H subcontractors between him and the contract.
Another example are service based contracts where the government pays a fixed price for delivery of one or more outputs. Those outputs might just happen to align with what particular employees do. These things are generally aligned to make the contractor more money vs the employee. But the employees are well compensated, and the overall deal is good enough that they don’t lose a lot of talent.
Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg
#25It seems like it's pretty hard for the government to compete with private industry in compensation. Federal pay grades are capped by Congress, and the top grade is around ~$150k a year [1]. And note that since it's the top of the scale, you have to start people off lower so that there is salary progression. Pretty sure a top cryptographer or security expert should be worth several times that, especially if they are a…
> if the NSA is going to spy on us, wouldn't you like that to be as secure as possible?
I have a friend who worked for the NSA. We had a heart to heart over drinks about a year ago. She asked what I thought about her working there. I responded, honestly, that if I didn't know her personally I'd be starting to wonder if she was, for whatever reason, unable to pass muster at Google et cetera. Not the best decision to drop that after a day of drinking together. But I'm glad I did--it was apparently the nudge she needed to quit.
Going to work and feeling like you're working on secret, cutting edge kit with the smartest people in the country is tremendously important to many people. The NSA lots its veneer of whiz kids confidentially cracking codes for good with Snowden. It now feels like another federal bureaucracy.
Postscript: She now works in the private sector and is thrilled with how much closer to her intelligence her new colleagues are. If you work for the NSA and are not a numpty, you're selling yourself short.
Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg
#26It seems like it's pretty hard for the government to compete with private industry in compensation. Federal pay grades are capped by Congress, and the top grade is around ~$150k a year [1]. And note that since it's the top of the scale, you have to start people off lower so that there is salary progression. Pretty sure a top cryptographer or security expert should be worth several times that, especially if they are a…
I think they are a victim of their own success. They had a good thing going, especially when the DC region was basically an army of clerks and was affordable. They made a little bit more than than average Federal employee and had nice benefits and retirement — a good gig. Now there’s no way to pay a government employee market rate without a scandal. The public views government employees as conniving sloths, but doesn…
My experience at a federal contractor suggested the main cost was probably due to lack of communication. Due government clients (sensibly) not trusting the contractor, there are extreme efforts at oversight, and that makes the people at the lowest levels cynical, because they're just ordinary people trying to do a decent job and the management slightly above them seems to see their mission as preventing any information from passing to/from their clients because it equates to risk. A government employee could waste 2/3 of their time and still get more done because of the cost of coordinating with others when you're external.
Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg
#27with luck, mentioning NSA on your resume results in an immediate trip to the discard pile during applications at most tech companies. if you're going to invade privacy on a massive scale, you better be ready for the consequences.
> with luck, mentioning NSA on your resume results in an immediate trip to the discard pile
You're getting down voted, but I've seen this first hand. I don't completely agree with it. But the employer's justification was that he would never be able to trust that the candidate wasn't a mole. (I pointed out that the NSA is probably capable of better hiding its moles.)
Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
No one cares about government pay scales. You don't have to work FOR the government to work for the government. Many top NSA specialists work for contractor firms and do earn tremendous compensation from their employers. Those employers contract with our government for totally uncapped contract sums. Obviously the contracts have to be reviewed for budget and capex limitations but otherwise no such thing as a salary c…
Like Edward Snowden's $200k salary from Booz Allen Hamilton.
Which didn't exist. BAH said his salary was actually 122k. I know of a few BAH salaries, likely more advanced than his, and they are much closer to that number.
Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg
#29It seems like it's pretty hard for the government to compete with private industry in compensation. Federal pay grades are capped by Congress, and the top grade is around ~$150k a year [1]. And note that since it's the top of the scale, you have to start people off lower so that there is salary progression. Pretty sure a top cryptographer or security expert should be worth several times that, especially if they are a…
That top pay grade is less than the starting compensation for PhD's at the big tech co's. Not to mention free food, potential for career growth, and an open non-militaristic culture where you can wear a hoodie instead of a tie. I honestly don't understand why someone would work for the NSA given the choice.
For the simple reason not everyone will get job at top 5-10 tech companies. There are jobs at consulting /contracting companies but apart from money they are in different league of crappiness. So once you eliminate those 2 categories govt job becomes pretty decent option if one can get it.
Re: NSA’s top talent is leaving because of low pay, flagging morale, unpopular reorg
#30the CIA funded Washington Post sullying the good name of those noble domestic spying NSA'ers?
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