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Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

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Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#91

Post by andrepd »

cryptoz wrote: post #36
monktastic1 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What do you mean, 'should'? I read it as something like 'are required to by law.' > Sure they would. Why not? I've done this. Canadian government and US government. It doesn't make sense not to do this sometimes. I'm curious, what was your reasoning for paying $500 more than expected? And in what way did it "not make sense" to not do that?

> I read it as something like 'are required to by law.' I would have said 'have to' to be required by law. 'Should' implies a moral code, a desire to do right and good. In this case, Google absolutely 'should' pay those taxes. > I'm curious, what was your reasoning for paying $500 more than expected? And in what way did it "not make sense" to not do that? If you have more money than necessary, and you know that other…

As an aside, I'm sad to see downvotes being used as a "I disagree with this post" (a la reddit) instead of a moderation tool to punish offtopic/rulebreaking, as they were intended.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#92

Post by dkural »

thrill wrote: post #6

There are no such things as tax loopholes. There is compliance with the law as Congress has written with all of their agendas, and there is noncompliance.

You're wrong. There are such things as tax loopholes; and this fact is acknowledged by lawmakers, lawyers, tax experts, corporations.

People don't like judgment so they say we're keeping with the law. Yes, they are, but by abusing tax loopholes.

Corporations have come up with a lot of banned phrases; and encouraged phrasing to hide the true nature and psychological, social, and material impact of their actions.

Where does it say in the tax code to go set up Bermuda corporations and launder revenue earned in various territories through Ireland and Netherlands to avoid taxation in those territories?

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#94

Post by Gustomaximus »

strommen wrote: post #4

When this loophole exists, it's tough to blame Google for not taking advantage of it. You may as well ask them to donate their profits to the federal government.

So its OK for Google to pay women less because they can. Or for for a politician to filter money into their wifes business because they can and its a grey area of the law.

Honestly, I cant understand all these comments essentially saying if you can get away with things you should do it. From the standards I was brought up with it seems there is a serious lack of moral compass in the world.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#95

Post by sokoloff »

dkural wrote: post #86
super-serial wrote: post #79

Bloomberg likes to write about how "tech companies do this" whenever it's something bad. The fact is all companies do this... it's well-known every industry is doing the same. Walmart, Exxon and Pfizer are just a few companies that tax-dodge just as much as Google. It's estimated $700 billion in taxes are dodged so singling out Google's $19 billion seems strange. https://americansfortaxfairness.org/corporate-tax-char…

Yes, but they don't have the "don't be evil" motto, or executives claiming some vague moral superiority to rest of the corporate world in "making the world a better place".

During the Alphabet transition, they dropped the "don't be evil" motto.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#96

Post by chillacy »

dkural wrote: post #86
super-serial wrote: post #79

Bloomberg likes to write about how "tech companies do this" whenever it's something bad. The fact is all companies do this... it's well-known every industry is doing the same. Walmart, Exxon and Pfizer are just a few companies that tax-dodge just as much as Google. It's estimated $700 billion in taxes are dodged so singling out Google's $19 billion seems strange. https://americansfortaxfairness.org/corporate-tax-char…

Yes, but they don't have the "don't be evil" motto, or executives claiming some vague moral superiority to rest of the corporate world in "making the world a better place".

Morality isn't really absolute, so I could see people justifying it. One line of reasoning could go:

1. The letter of the law and the Right Thing aren't always the same thing (jury nullification, MLK)

2. You disagree with what the government spends tax money on

3. You think AI progress is a form of "doing good"

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#97

Post by sokoloff »

cryptoz wrote: post #53
monktastic1 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the rational thing to do could be to help out Sure, it's just that some might prefer charities. > The rational move is to fully pay all expected taxes The difficulty is in defining "expected." If the tax authorities give your return the green light, in what sense did they "expect" more? If your definition of expectation isn't about the letter of the law but the spirit, then whose spirit (amongst the many lawyers, a…

The definition of 'expected' comes from the tax code and the government. The article itself states that the governments are expecting more revenue than they are receiving from these companies. Why are they expecting more? Because the companies spend more money finding ways to stash it offshore than the current employees at the government offices can spend to find and estimate the losses that will incur from a company…

>It messes up government planning and spending by cheating them out of money that they were expecting based on the profits from the company.

>It's clear cut.

See, that's the thing; it's obviously not clear cut to other people.

There's a very reasonable (IMO) position that a taxpayer is merely obligated to comply with the law, but is not similarly obligated to structure their affairs in such a way as to maximize the government's take.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#99

Post by microcolonel »

dkural wrote: post #86
super-serial wrote: post #79

Bloomberg likes to write about how "tech companies do this" whenever it's something bad. The fact is all companies do this... it's well-known every industry is doing the same. Walmart, Exxon and Pfizer are just a few companies that tax-dodge just as much as Google. It's estimated $700 billion in taxes are dodged so singling out Google's $19 billion seems strange. https://americansfortaxfairness.org/corporate-tax-char…

Yes, but they don't have the "don't be evil" motto, or executives claiming some vague moral superiority to rest of the corporate world in "making the world a better place".

What is evil about not paying taxes you have no legal obligation to?

They have little or no unchecked burden on public infrastructure, basically all of their activities generate value out of thin air. If the tax code your representatives approved allows them to legally retain money, it would be stupid and thankless for them to pay more through taxes.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#100

Post by peteretep »

chillacy wrote: post #96
dkural wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but they don't have the "don't be evil" motto, or executives claiming some vague moral superiority to rest of the corporate world in "making the world a better place".

Morality isn't really absolute, so I could see people justifying it. One line of reasoning could go: 1. The letter of the law and the Right Thing aren't always the same thing (jury nullification, MLK) 2. You disagree with what the government spends tax money on 3. You think AI progress is a form of "doing good"

> The letter of the law and the Right Thing aren't always the same thing (jury nullification, MLK)

And if they were working on changing the law, or explicitly appealing to justice, that might carry some water. Simply flouting the law for private profit is hard to tie back to a sense of morality

> You disagree with what the government spends tax money on

Your moral remedy for this is to vote, not to steal

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