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Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

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Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#81

Post by cantrip »

crdoconnor wrote: post #57
cantrip wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never paid more taxes (that I'm aware of) than I am legally obligated to and I never will. Your list of conditions for rationally paying more taxes hinges on so many assumptions that it's a moot point. You might as well say it's rational to burn money in a fire. If you have more than you need, and you know that others don't, and you know that the government is not efficient enough to use it properly, and you k…

>If you have more than you need, and you know that others don't, and you know that the government is not efficient enough to use it properly You don't pay taxes so that governments can spend money. Governments can spend as much money as they like - they print the damn stuff. The economy would function precisely as it does now if every dollar paid in tax were burned and every dollar spent by the government were printe…

None of that is remotely true.

Even discounting local and state governments, which use tax dollars to fund themselves and can't print money like you describe, even the federal government doesn't work like that.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#82

Post by reificator »

jdavis703 wrote: post #59
joelg wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There are no such things as bugs in code; the computer always executes the code as written." Loopholes and bugs are differences between intent and effect.

What about a software bug that was actually a deliberate "backdoor"? Or what about a tax statute that was written with warnings that it was ripe for abuse (e.g. the pass through income tax cut)?

That some bugs are deliberate has no bearing on the non-deliberate ones.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#83

Post by papermule »

c22 wrote: post #76
cantrip wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Do you think shareholders would stand for a company paying $19.2B more in taxes than they should? That would be absurdly negligent on the part of everyone leading the company. Would an individual pay $500 more in taxes than they are required to out of the goodness of their heart and belief in the American government? Don't indict corporations for following the tax code, change the laws.

> Would an individual pay $500 more in taxes than they are required to out of the goodness of their heart and belief in the American government? I've done it. I also let the shopkeepers make "mistaken" change when I visited Nepal. Sometimes I tip $5 even when I buy less than $25 worth of food at a restaurant. Maybe I'm a moron, but I think of money as a tool and when I can afford it I am happy to help others accompli…

I think disposable income is great! I like having it as much as the next person, but gosh do I waste it! If I saved all the cash I’ve “donated” in tips and excessive spending I’m certain I’d have a couple $1000 more in the bank and would be much closer to building that track car I’ve been fantasising about.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#84

Post by yakitori »

gowld wrote: post #16
thrill wrote: post #6

There are no such things as tax loopholes. There is compliance with the law as Congress has written with all of their agendas, and there is noncompliance.

Loopholes exist, because language is imprecise and imperfect. Laws have loopholes like code has bugs. In this particular case, it's probably not a loophole, since the behavior in question has been known for many years, and the US government has made no effort to change how the law fails to tax overseas income of corporations. In many cases, tax law says or (implies) "you pay $X to us, but you get credit for tax paid…

> Loopholes exist, because language is imprecise and imperfect.

That's one way for loopholes to exist. Another way is for companies to pay/lobby politicians to write loopholes into tax laws.

> Laws have loopholes like code has bugs.

Sure. And software also has backdoors placed there intentionally by developers.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#85

Post by papermule »

ucaetano wrote: post #71
cantrip wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Do you think shareholders would stand for a company paying $19.2B more in taxes than they should? That would be absurdly negligent on the part of everyone leading the company. Would an individual pay $500 more in taxes than they are required to out of the goodness of their heart and belief in the American government? Don't indict corporations for following the tax code, change the laws.

They didn't pay $19.2B less taxes, they just didn't pay local income taxes on those $19.2B. They would still need to pay US taxes on those $19.2B if they repatriate it.

Apple, for example, have most of their cash offshore and can’t bring it home without being subject to a large tax bill. There is a great write up about it here https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2017/12/12/the-end-to-appl...

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#86

Post by dkural »

super-serial wrote: post #79

Bloomberg likes to write about how "tech companies do this" whenever it's something bad. The fact is all companies do this... it's well-known every industry is doing the same. Walmart, Exxon and Pfizer are just a few companies that tax-dodge just as much as Google. It's estimated $700 billion in taxes are dodged so singling out Google's $19 billion seems strange. https://americansfortaxfairness.org/corporate-tax-char…

Yes, but they don't have the "don't be evil" motto, or executives claiming some vague moral superiority to rest of the corporate world in "making the world a better place".

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#87

Post by andrepd »

thrill wrote: post #6

There are no such things as tax loopholes. There is compliance with the law as Congress has written with all of their agendas, and there is noncompliance.

Yes, there is such thing as the "spirit of the law" vs the "letter of the law". OJ got away with murder but that doesn't make him any less guilty.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#88

Post by dkural »

cantrip wrote: post #24
thrill wrote: post #6

There are no such things as tax loopholes. There is compliance with the law as Congress has written with all of their agendas, and there is noncompliance.

Exactly. Do you think shareholders would stand for a company paying $19.2B more in taxes than they should? That would be absurdly negligent on the part of everyone leading the company. Would an individual pay $500 more in taxes than they are required to out of the goodness of their heart and belief in the American government? Don't indict corporations for following the tax code, change the laws.

There is no law that says you must set up Bermuda, Dutch and Irish subsidiaries, and use your IP to shuffle profits, or other methods, to evade tax in territories where that revenue is earned. Most companies aren't wealthy enough to do this; and in fact they don't do it. Many of them are public corporations. Their shareholders don't sue or demand such actions.

Re: Google used a tax loophole to shelter $19.2B

#90

Post by andrepd »

compiler-guy wrote: post #56
crdoconnor wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Don't indict corporations for following the tax code, change the laws. I wouldn't have done in the past before Google hired lobbyists, but if they're sending people to Washington to "help" draft laws then pretending that they are not culpable is simply dishonest.

Don't know about you, but I tend to vote for politicians that enact my policy preferences.

Yes, but I'm a person, Google is not. Government runs (ostensibly) for the benefit of the people, so people get to have a say in it.
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