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Stimulus: A modest JavaScript framework for the HTML you already have

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Re: Stimulus: A modest JavaScript framework for the HTML you already have

#41

Post by meesterdude »

holydude wrote: post #12

It is becoming more and more apparent that with every piece of technology that is not really turn on/turn off you have to justify the investment.I get that this is an opinionated piece of software and solves basecamp's kind of issues but I do not see it being widely adopted. That said I wish people behind RoR would actually work on better integration with things like React and Vue.

Rails is an open source web development framework that excels in productivity by coming with smart defaults for people to use to get up and running quickly.

Rails already integrates with webpack, and you can certainly implement your own integrations to further advance things - and you can turn around and make this a gem for others to use, or contribute it to core if its something more fundamental.

But for the most part, the people behind RoR are pretty happy using RoR for their development, and don't need to use React or Vue for a majority of what they do.

Re: Stimulus: A modest JavaScript framework for the HTML you already have

#42

Post by itwy »

meesterdude wrote: post #38
itwy wrote: post #31

In essence, Basecamp has a well-maintained legacy system that they keep patching up because it doesn't make sense businesswise to rewrite it from scratch using modern methodologies. Good for them, I do that myself but be careful going down that path if you are starting a new project and you have the resources/experience to have a more solid/correct foundation with proper separation of concerns.

Just because they have different ideas and opinions than yours, does not make them in any way wrong or legacy, or unsolid or incorrect. Also, basecamp has been rewritten 3 times.

Try to discuss the idea not my personal opinion.

Re: Stimulus: A modest JavaScript framework for the HTML you already have

#43

Post by Tloewald »

I do like the brief and to-the-point introduction. Stimulus seems somewhat similar, or at least similarly motivated, to a framework I've been creating as I go -- https://bindinator.com/

(It's gotten quite a bit bigger than stimulus as it's been used. Such is life.)

Re: Stimulus: A modest JavaScript framework for the HTML you already have

#44

Post by gedy »

holydude wrote: post #12

It is becoming more and more apparent that with every piece of technology that is not really turn on/turn off you have to justify the investment.I get that this is an opinionated piece of software and solves basecamp's kind of issues but I do not see it being widely adopted. That said I wish people behind RoR would actually work on better integration with things like React and Vue.

They have improved the integration with Webpacker, but also bear in mind if you don't use the HTML/UI type functionality in Rails, it's a lot less compelling. I'm assuming DHH/RoR is sensitive to that hence these solutions like TurboLinks, Stimulus, etc that still use server rendered HTML.

Re: Stimulus: A modest JavaScript framework for the HTML you already have

#45

Post by triskweline »

sheraz wrote: post #25

I think this, along with its sibling Turbolinks [1], is filling a much needed gap with regards to complexity in these javascript frameworks. Myself, I've been playing with intercoolerjs [2] for a few weeks, and it is quite refreshing. These are great libraries for small full-stack teams who do not want to get lost in the complexity of front-end stuff like react, webpack, etc. [1] - https://github.com/turbolinks/turbo…

If you enjoy working with intercooler.js but are looking for a bit more power, check out Unpoly [1].

[1]: https://unpoly.com

Re: Stimulus: A modest JavaScript framework for the HTML you already have

#46

Post by scarface74 »

ryanbrunner wrote: post #26
scarface74 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I don't like adding to a response once it's been commented on) My other rule of thumb when choosing a framework is what would happen if things go south, will I be asked by management why I chose X? The old "no one ever got fired for buying IBM". With a pedigree like BaseCamp has, I could justify it by saying it came from them. Just like I justified using Hashicorp's Nomad, even though no one had ever heard of it bef…

If your primary metric is "do established companies use / support this", you're already well served by React / Angular, which are supported by Facebook and Google respectively. I think the companies who built a framework can be instructive though. Frameworks and libraries tend to reflect the companies who created them. In React / Angular's case, the frameworks are built to work well for large teams that deal with man…

I don't have to use the most popular framework, but that is a consideration, but if I am going to use something that is less popular and as foundational as a framework, it has to be either somewhat popular or from a company with a pedigree.

Nomad is nowhere near as popular as Kubernetes, but Consul has been around for awhile as has Hashicorp's dev ops tools (Vagrant, Packer, and Terraform) and are all reasonable popular. You can tell people for everything except Nomad - go watch a PluralSight video.

Re: Stimulus: A modest JavaScript framework for the HTML you already have

#47

Post by lostphilosopher »

scarface74 wrote: post #11
scarface74 wrote: post #4

For context, I'm in no way, shape, or form a modern front end maestro. I'm good with ES6, Jquery, Handlebars, and Bootstrap. I've done a little with the Angular 2. From that perspective.... What does this buy me over the other more popular frameworks? What are the chances that this won't be abandoned if it doesn't gain traction? It's also easier to recruit developers if you say your stack is built on the more popular…

(I don't like adding to a response once it's been commented on) My other rule of thumb when choosing a framework is what would happen if things go south, will I be asked by management why I chose X? The old "no one ever got fired for buying IBM". With a pedigree like BaseCamp has, I could justify it by saying it came from them. Just like I justified using Hashicorp's Nomad, even though no one had ever heard of it bef…

> "It allows us to party with productivity like days of yore. A throwback to when a single programmer could make rapacious progress without getting stuck in layers of indirection or distributed systems. [source](https://github.com/stimulusjs/stimulus/blob/master/ORIGIN.md...

I suspect if you're in a situation where you need bureaucratic approval or "CYA" you don't have one of the main problems stimulus is trying to solve - helping small teams or single developers create apps that can keep up with apps written by larger teams with more specialities/ists.

Doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't use it, but it does mean you've got options others might not. I do freelance development from time to time by myself. There's a limit to how big/complex of a stack I can be responsible for. Rails has been a great tool for me even though in my "real" job we use a much more robust toolset - in my real job I work with a team. I'm pretty excited about what I (by myself) could do with stimulus. :-)

Re: Stimulus: A modest JavaScript framework for the HTML you already have

#48

Post by c8d3f7b49897918 »

sheraz wrote: post #25

I think this, along with its sibling Turbolinks [1], is filling a much needed gap with regards to complexity in these javascript frameworks. Myself, I've been playing with intercoolerjs [2] for a few weeks, and it is quite refreshing. These are great libraries for small full-stack teams who do not want to get lost in the complexity of front-end stuff like react, webpack, etc. [1] - https://github.com/turbolinks/turbo…

Thank you for the kind words about intercooler.js. :)

If you are interested in some reading on the theory behind it, I recommend these two blog posts that explain how HTML and REST/HATEOAS hang together better than Javascript with JSON:

http://intercoolerjs.org/2016/01/18/rescuing-rest.html

http://intercoolerjs.org/2016/05/08/hatoeas-is-for-humans.ht...

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