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Basecamp doesn’t employ anyone in SF, but now we pay everyone as though all did

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Re: Basecamp doesn’t employ anyone in SF, but now we pay everyone as though all did

#121

Post by BoorishBears »

sjg007 wrote: post #119
overcast wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean ryandrake above just stated glassdoor and salary.com showing $110,000 as the medium. So below $150k.

This histogram says that the mode is less than https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/san-jose-software-enginee...

I see a bar at 159k, and Glassdoor is seems to also be separating by variants of the title "Software Engineer", like "Lead Software Engineer" and "Software Engineer II" which could change results (not sure that those are subsets of Software Engineer in their system)

Re: Basecamp doesn’t employ anyone in SF, but now we pay everyone as though all did

#122

Post by hashkb »

jbb67 wrote: post #24

Nice. Be interesting to see if this policy lasts through changes of management and if it survives any reduction in profits or growth of the company.

Their management won't change. They are profitable and employee owned.

Re: Basecamp doesn’t employ anyone in SF, but now we pay everyone as though all did

#123

Post by kriro »

compumike wrote: post #97
overcast wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No way on this earth, $150,000 is anywhere near normal in the Bay Area, let alone in other less expensive metros. Most people are absolutely not making that much money writing code. People have serious tunnel vision on HN.

(Disclosure: I work for Triplebyte and helped publish our salary dataset recently.) $150K is below the median base salary offer we see for senior software engineers. See https://triplebyte.com/software-engineer-salary -- with a few notes: * This is base salary only. Total compensation is significantly higher once you include factors like equity compensation, bonuses, benefits. * This does vary a lot with stage of com…

I would love to see something like "true salary" where people can enter the actual hours they work, vacation days they get and salary (+ taxation as an option). If I compare on a per hour basis and factor in vacation time quite a few good looking US salaries become a lot less attractive for say a French software developer who is working a 35h workweek. It's especially interesting if you compare "boring" development jobs to "highly innovative" ones because in boring jobs (in house J2EE etc.) you're often actually able to more or less stick to the 40h/week without much overtime.

Re: Basecamp doesn’t employ anyone in SF, but now we pay everyone as though all did

#124

Post by toomuchtodo »

leecarraher wrote: post #75

I agree that many companies should pay more competitive salaries , but doesn't this disproportionately hurt people in higher cost of living areas? Everyone else gets a pay increase, the company's bottom line tightens, and higher cost of living area folks get nothing for it. I live in an area with a relatively low cost of living, and the only way I would consider moving elsewhere would be if the salary were increased…

Is the solution to the SFBA housing crisis (remote work enabling SFBA wages without living there) not as palatable as forcing more development?

Re: Basecamp doesn’t employ anyone in SF, but now we pay everyone as though all did

#125

Post by criddell »

welly wrote: post #25
rplnt wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the work you're doing is exactly the same regardless of where you do it from But the "bay pay" isn't for your work. It's so you can work - i.e. cover your expenses associated with working at that particular place.

Isn't it? Given a situation with two developers working remotely with exactly the same skills, experience and knowledge on the same project, but one works in India, the other one works in the Bay area. Can you give me one valid reason why the developer in India should get a penny less than the developer in the Bay area? And that the cost of living is less in India than in SF is not, in my opinion, a valid reason. You…

> Can you give me one valid reason why the developer in India should get a penny less than the developer in the Bay area?

Because they are willing to take less.

Re: Basecamp doesn’t employ anyone in SF, but now we pay everyone as though all did

#126

Post by Veelox »

overcast wrote: post #104
compumike wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Disclosure: I work for Triplebyte and helped publish our salary dataset recently.) $150K is below the median base salary offer we see for senior software engineers. See https://triplebyte.com/software-engineer-salary -- with a few notes: * This is base salary only. Total compensation is significantly higher once you include factors like equity compensation, bonuses, benefits. * This does vary a lot with stage of com…

Thanks for the response, like you said, you're very selective, and this is for only senior roles. Of course everyone is not a senior, the vast majority I suspect.

Senior in this context often means >5 years. So if you are 30 you typically count as senior. I believe ~50% of my >10k coworkers are senior or above.

Re: Basecamp doesn’t employ anyone in SF, but now we pay everyone as though all did

#127

Post by tinbad »

conanbatt wrote: post #120
jasonkester wrote: post #2

Well done. Personally, as a remote developer, I always make a point of billing at my "Bay Area Rate", even though I've never lived there. There was a point, early in my guy-on-the-beach-with-a-laptop era where I would cut my bill rate in half while working from the beach with a laptop. Clients were happy about that, and it more than paid for beers and thatch huts. Then one time I tried not cutting my bill rate in hal…

The idea to match salary to cost of living is economically ridiculous, but I want to share a couple of personal experiences and ideas. > As the article so nicely points put, the work you're doing is exactly the same regardless of where you do it from. Charge accordingly. First of all, a remote employee is not worth the same as one in the office. For 2 engineers of the same capacity, any employer or coworker would rat…

I don't agree with your premise of "remote workers being worth less (even if slightly) because there's less efficient collaboration".

The last part is only true because most of today's organizations and processes are organized this way. Objectively, there's very little (outside of the individuals ability/willingness to work) that can't be optimized for remote work using modern technology.

I've been working remote for many years now and even many large enterprises I have worked for recently have adopted tools needed for working remotely efficiently (easy video/chat/screen share, collaborative productivity tools etc.). At this point, my impression it's mostly mental barriers (managers!) that stall any progress in this area.

Re: Basecamp doesn’t employ anyone in SF, but now we pay everyone as though all did

#128

Post by freyir »

shadowtree wrote: post #99
Androider wrote: post #64

DHH has the coolest desk and home office I've ever seen: https://www.instagram.com/p/BcnPtAwlAKe/?hl=en&taken-by=dhh7... Check out the rest of the house too, amazing. I think some people have this image that Basecamp and DHH is some scrappy bootstrapper fighting the establishment. But really he is living the life that even most successful "exited" venture fueled founders wouldn't be able to attain, and he's just sayi…

He used to promote himself like this: https://m.signalvnoise.com/the-day-i-became-a-millionaire-55... But then he counted his money again, bought a house in the hills of Malibu, a couple of mad cars (family car is a Rolls-Royce Phantom), starting being a race car driver (Le Mans),... Never believe ANYONE who says money isn't the a key to happiness. Not the sole reason, but just take a look at his Insta again. Kudos.

> just take a look at his Insta again

I'm looking. I see a guy who really likes Rolexes and cars and flaunting his wealth to strangers on the Internet. What am I supposed to be seeing?

Re: Basecamp doesn’t employ anyone in SF, but now we pay everyone as though all did

#129

Post by mcintyre1994 »

Androider wrote: post #64

DHH has the coolest desk and home office I've ever seen: https://www.instagram.com/p/BcnPtAwlAKe/?hl=en&taken-by=dhh7... Check out the rest of the house too, amazing. I think some people have this image that Basecamp and DHH is some scrappy bootstrapper fighting the establishment. But really he is living the life that even most successful "exited" venture fueled founders wouldn't be able to attain, and he's just sayi…

The cars are pretty nice too...

Re: Basecamp doesn’t employ anyone in SF, but now we pay everyone as though all did

#130

Post by TulliusCicero »

> Basecamp is paying everyone as though they live in San Francisco and work for a software company that pays in the top 10% of that market (compared to base pay + bonus, but not options).

Most companies seem to use stock grants these days, not options, no? And ignoring those means you're not actually paying comparable compensation, right?

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