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Scammers gaming India’s overcrowded job market

theguardian.com

41–50 of 79 posts

Re: Scammers gaming India’s overcrowded job market

#41

edited: Some grammatical errors. Great read, and full of issues that are discussed on HN everyday. Also, not a new topic, the call centers have been on the decline for long, and for good reasons. > -today, young people from agricultural castes want to work in offices and not farms. I wondered what other options were open to them. > Poojary read it out to me in his best American accent, which he had perfected by the e…

> Isn't that why the 401k and MediCare/MedicAid exist?

Well, that doesn't provide you with emotional support and caring, just material goods.

Even if all your needs are provided for, if you're all alone in that nobody wants to speak to you or see you except one or twice a year, you're still alone and isolated.

In addition, 401k is a plan you pay into, and you get taxed one way or another. Some employers match, but besides for that, you're on your own.

Re: Scammers gaming India’s overcrowded job market

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They pay a non-decent amounts to these test takers, because they are desperate, and most likely not very well off. So they're already in the red when they appear for the job they are not qualified for. Some do this because they think that the job market is skewed against them, and might also have the sentiments that these 'seats' within the companies are reserved for 'rich people' or the 'upper castes', when that's h…

> They pay a non-decent amounts to these test takers, because they are desperate And because the consequences are low. Anticipated shame [1] is an observed determinant in cheating frequency. > does no one any good It deters cheating. This does the honest test takers, e.g. those without the resources to pay "a non-decent amount" to cheat, a favor. It does employers, by being able to better trust exam results, a favor.…

Edited: Added link

Fining them is a way, I agree with you on that. But it's far from the best way.

The paper you provided[0] also goes on to talk about the future actions of an offender who has been caught in the act previously.

> It should be noted that being caught cheating in the past does not necessarily provide an accurate measure of high perception of being caught cheating in the future.

I'll concede to cherry picking for my arguments, but even anecdotally, cheaters will cheat, cost is an afterthought. People negatively affected (caught cheating and fined) will only remember the part about being fined. From their perspective, the organisation has just exploited them more, and you have just bred more resentment for your organisation within this community.

[0] https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/46025357/bf0...

Re: Scammers gaming India’s overcrowded job market

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is worse, consider officialdom in China where any highish official can be brought down for corruption at anytime. So if you are clean, you won’t get promoted, because your higher ups and peers can’t control you with that axe over your head. So ya, you can take a stand, but you aren’t going to go far enough in your career for the stand to make much of a difference, cynicism or not.

Whereas if you can't be brought down for corruption, you will get promoted because you can pay your way off? China's policy is fairly sane. Nobody except for the inner circle of the party can take anything for granted. If you bribe somebody for advancement, if caught, both you and the person you bribe get brought down and punished. Probably a jail sentence, confiscation of any property that you might possibly have go…

China’s policy isn’t sane at all. The lack of rule of law means a prosecutor or judge just can’t go out and act on corruption complaints, the party is internally policing itself (you have to be expelled before prosecution is even possible). Who gets brought down for corruption often depends on who they are aligned with, not what they actually did. It’s like wild parking in Beijing, everyone with a car does it, only a very few are ever punished for it. Or the fact that there are brothels everywhere except during CCP congress meetings, law is selectively and conveniently enforced, not fairly at all.

Re: Scammers gaming India’s overcrowded job market

#44
One of the first jobs I had was in a small call centre (doing cold calls). I had to read a script asking random people questions about their financial situation. I think it might have been a scam but I'm still not sure to this day; it just sounded like a standard insurance questionnaire but I don't know what they did with the answers that were collected. I got fired after 2 weeks because my conversion rates were not good enough.

I think that these kinds of jobs are morally acceptable. You can't expect the poor to behave ethically while the rich are screwing them over 24/7. You can't have a fair society without some degree of chaos and allowing people to take matters into their own hands.

If we accept capitalism, then we must accept all the nasty things that come with it.

Many people pretend that capitalism is just a matter of rewarding intelligence over stupidity and hard work over laziness, but it's just as much about rewarding selfishness over selflessness, deception over honesty, short-term thinking over long-term thinking, etc...

Re: Scammers gaming India’s overcrowded job market

#45
post #36
post #9

This is like the boiler room stuff from "Wolf of Wall Street". Unfortunately it is not reviled rather held in awe. One thing which is never talked about in these articles is the failure of Indian government (past and present) to find effective family planning policies. Population growth is through the roof and hence unemployment is huge. With not much left in terms of job prospects lot of people turn to shady stuff.…

All this seems a dark side of democracy in a not well educated country. All the political parties do short term work just enough to win the next election and no one cares to plans long term. And when people are not educated they just don't get complicated perspective, all that understand is here and now leading to all short term band-aid solutions which are harmful for the long term.

> All the political parties do short term work just enough to win the next election and no one cares to plans long term. People just don't get complicated perspective, all that understand is here and now leading to all short term band-aid solutions which are harmful for the long term.

You're describing all democracies, in every country. Education has nothing to do with it. It's a well-studied structural problem with democratic rule in general.

Re: Scammers gaming India’s overcrowded job market

#46
I'm always shocked that these IRS scams ever work, let alone consistently enough to make them viable businesses. Someone with an Indian accent and really bad phone connection calls you up and tells you they are from the IRS and you need to pay them "taxes" with an Apple gift card, and people fall for this?? First off, the government will never contact you by phone. I thought everyone knew this but if not the FTC is here to remind you [1]. Second, even if they did, wouldn't you require some kind of written evidence before you paid? Third, Apple gift cards? Seriously??? I guess a fool and their money are soon parted, but this is a pretty unbelievable level of gullibility.

1: https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/2013/08/whos-calling-not-g...

Re: Scammers gaming India’s overcrowded job market

#47

One of the first jobs I had was in a small call centre (doing cold calls). I had to read a script asking random people questions about their financial situation. I think it might have been a scam but I'm still not sure to this day; it just sounded like a standard insurance questionnaire but I don't know what they did with the answers that were collected. I got fired after 2 weeks because my conversion rates were not…

The rich are screwing over the poor, therefore it's morally acceptable to scam poor and middle class grandmothers out of their pensions? I guarantee it's not the wealthy elite that are being targeted by these scams.

Re: Scammers gaming India’s overcrowded job market

#48

Reminded me we hired an indian android developer (contractor) through a phone interview (in US). When “he” showed up for work, it wasn’t him. The contractor who actually showed up couldn’t answer the same questions.

While we dint exactly hire but we had an even worse situation. A particular developer from our team was conducting "real time" training outside office. He referred two guys for a particular job opening.

While interviewing the first guy, in-person interview, we asked about process flows at his last job. The answer was uncannily similar to what we were doing. We were intrigued and dug deeper. It became apparent to us that he was describing our process back to us. When we asked about what OS his current employer was using for prod systems, he folded. So, we ended the interview.

The 2nd guy, again in-person interview, repeated the same process flow. And he came prepared. He said the prod systems were Windows. When we pushed about the Windows flavor he answered Windows 10. He had never heard of the server version of Windows like 2012 R2. The best part was that he somehow thought the job was already in the bag. So whenever we asked a difficult questions his answers were pretty passive aggressive.

Though I complained to both HR and developer's US manager, nothing came out of it. All reports were ignored.

Re: Scammers gaming India’s overcrowded job market

#49
I find it strange that some recruiters close the hiring process only with telephonic interviews.

May be they don't have any respect for their job and their organizations. It is not about the technique of hiring, it is the lazy unskilled people in the hiring team who don't care about the employee's career and the organizations growth.

So they get what they deserve.

May be if Facebook introduces a button for Add Employee, they will find it more convenient and browse Facebook and start clicking Add Employee after reviewing their profiles.

LOL, So funny.

Organization needs to pay attention and setup a hiring team who want to do a good job in the task at hand.

Re: Scammers gaming India’s overcrowded job market

#50

edited: Some grammatical errors. Great read, and full of issues that are discussed on HN everyday. Also, not a new topic, the call centers have been on the decline for long, and for good reasons. > -today, young people from agricultural castes want to work in offices and not farms. I wondered what other options were open to them. > Poojary read it out to me in his best American accent, which he had perfected by the e…

> I've heard many arguments about how its a cultural thing, old people in the west (more weighted towards N-America) are treated as a burden. A burden on the economy, a social burden (damn those annoying grandpa's and grandma's). Isn't that why the 401k and MediCare/MedicAid exist? (excluding the set of population that doesn't qualify for them) to pay them(selves) back for their 40+ years of service? I'd like to hear some fresh arguments/data on why they are treated as such. I'd be grateful to anyone who points me to more reading material on this topic.

Usual disclaimer: This is my opinion, yada yada yada. I am probably wrong on some (if not most) of this.

The elderly, especially in America, have an incredible amount of sway over national politics. Nearly 1/2 of voters are 50 or older [1]. As such, they generate a lot of ire in the US among the less-elderly because it feels like their needs are often met at the expense of the nation.

Medicare, for example, represents a huge amount of US entitlement spending [2] - though this is somewhat of a misleading number because Medicare funds quite a few things besides strictly healthcare expenses (like it funds most physician residencies, IIRC). Coming out in opposition to Medicare is often viewed as a bit of a political death sentence, because your primary goal as a politician is (at least it feels this way sometimes) to pander to older voters.

Additionally, steadfast conservatives tend to be elderly [3], which often puts the elderly in opposition to younger generations. Since politicians tend to listen primarily to their actual voters, you can sort-of understand the young liberal's decree that "things will be better when all the old people die."

Now, none of this is really the elderly's fault (aside from maybe that last part). Medicare is a reaction to an out-of-control healthcare system, and that's not necessarily your grandma's fault. If politicians listen to the people who vote for them, the logical answer would seem to be "go out and vote", not "get angry at the people who do vote."

But, if you're someone who does vote but feels like your voice still isn't being heard, you can probably start to understand some of the animosity.

1: http://www.post-gazette.com/news/nation/2011/05/04/U-S-votin...

2: https://www.cms.gov/research-statistics-data-and-systems/sta...

3: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/07/09/the-politics...

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