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A wall of lava lamps helps encrypt the internet

atlasobscura.com

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Re: A wall of lava lamps helps encrypt the internet

#81
post #80

That's approximately 100 lava lamps each at 100W = 10,000W = 10kW/h * 20.4 cents = $2.04/h * 24 = $48.96/day $1,489.20/month. Ignoring the fact that is very little money in Silicon Valley. Lava lamps consume a large amount of electricity in order to generate the heat they need. There are cheaper better ways to generate randomness, this is purely for spectacle clearly. It makes me nervous more than anything. If that's…

They should "power" the lamps with excess CPU/processor heat.

Re: A wall of lava lamps helps encrypt the internet

#83
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sure. In another office they use a geiger counter (a much more standard way to get randomness, and probably easier to setup). That said, this doubles as a public art installation in their lobby - something many companies spend thousands (or millions!) of dollars on. So it's not just PR, it's actually surprisingly practical.

I know I'm nitpicking here - it's a private art installation.

Anyone can visit it though, according to the article.

Re: A wall of lava lamps helps encrypt the internet

#84
I did something similar a few years back, except instead of Lava lamps, I used a Geiger counter module connected to an Arduino (scrap from a project I was working on to make something economical for civilian use after the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster). Basically, the background radiation is used as the PRNG number (not just as the seed). I found out later that someone at Sparkfun already did this: https://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/132

Re: A wall of lava lamps helps encrypt the internet

#85
post #32
post #17

I might be prejudiced, but this looks like a big PR stunt/done for the cool factor kind of thing. Aren't there simpler/saner alternatives for getting good randomness?

It is entirely, 100% a publicity stunt with no practical importance whatsoever.

Yes, the article and the form in which it is exhibited is a PR stunt. However, that doesn't mean it's not practical in any capacity....if you locked this away in a room and never told anyone, it would still hold a utility for the company. Are there alternatives? Sure, but again that doesn't make it impractical.

It's also a fairly novel way to explain to people that `random()` isn't truly random.

Re: A wall of lava lamps helps encrypt the internet

#86
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Geiger counter might happen to be very vulnerable to collocated attacks. Overwhelm counter with non-random radiation, compromise a batch of keys produced during the burst,

Are you suggesting a gamma ray beam? Or neutron beam? (You couldn't do an alpha particle beam - that's stopped by a sheet of paper... and the beta particle ray would have difficulty with the building construction). This then goes to the question of "where are you getting a focused gamma ray beam that has sufficient rate that you're able to modulate the period between two detection events?"

This depends on what the counter in question is measuring. If it's "background" radiation, where background is outside the counter, it should be pretty easy to bring your own foreground.

If it's an internal source and it is properly shielded, this becomes much harder.

Re: A wall of lava lamps helps encrypt the internet

#88
post #80

That's approximately 100 lava lamps each at 100W = 10,000W = 10kW/h * 20.4 cents = $2.04/h * 24 = $48.96/day $1,489.20/month. Ignoring the fact that is very little money in Silicon Valley. Lava lamps consume a large amount of electricity in order to generate the heat they need. There are cheaper better ways to generate randomness, this is purely for spectacle clearly. It makes me nervous more than anything. If that's…

IIRC a standard size lava lamp used much less than a 100W bulb. So your costs are maybe half that.

Re: A wall of lava lamps helps encrypt the internet

#89
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Geiger counter might happen to be very vulnerable to collocated attacks. Overwhelm counter with non-random radiation, compromise a batch of keys produced during the burst,

Are you suggesting a gamma ray beam? Or neutron beam? (You couldn't do an alpha particle beam - that's stopped by a sheet of paper... and the beta particle ray would have difficulty with the building construction). This then goes to the question of "where are you getting a focused gamma ray beam that has sufficient rate that you're able to modulate the period between two detection events?"

Often times devices of secure randomness run the bell test to ensure that they aren’t being tampered with. I believe that blasting the counter with a gamma ray beam would indicate this.

Re: A wall of lava lamps helps encrypt the internet

#90
post #85
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is entirely, 100% a publicity stunt with no practical importance whatsoever.

Yes, the article and the form in which it is exhibited is a PR stunt. However, that doesn't mean it's not practical in any capacity....if you locked this away in a room and never told anyone, it would still hold a utility for the company. Are there alternatives? Sure, but again that doesn't make it impractical. It's also a fairly novel way to explain to people that `random()` isn't truly random.

It is unlikely that it holds any utility, or that it is practical in any capacity.
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