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LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

kansas.com

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Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#681

Post by joe5150 »

Dove wrote: post #588
rojoca wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about mentally ill people? People on medication that make them groggy? People who are drunk in their own home? People who are exhausted from a huge week at work? Children? Elderly? People cannot reasonably be expected to “stay calm” at a moments notice. That is completely unreasonable.

Special cases make bad rules. Seat belts make you safer... but not if your car gets crushed between two semis. That doesn't mean seat belts are pointless, just that they don't work in that case. Moving deliberately and keeping your hands visible around police, particularly if they seem to think you're dangerous, is a good way to stay as safe as you can, and will put them less on edge in the encounter. You want that.…

why do civilians have to make those tradeoffs and not police?

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#682

Post by joe5150 »

bradbatt wrote: post #205
bradbatt wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they are describing a very threatening movement Yes, that is what they are describing. Because of course they are. What we don't have is video. And what we don't have is the other guy's account of what happened – because they killed him.

Oh … apparently we do have video. Off to find it now.

For interested parties http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article192111974.html

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#683

Post by c22 »

jmartrican wrote: post #338

Stories like this is going to make every encounter with a cop a lot more frightening for me. As a teenager I was once yelled out by undercover cops that came out of no where. They yelled at me to "not put your hands in my pocket" or "put my hands up"... I really do not recall the exact words. I instinctively put my hands in my pocket. I couldn't help it, I do not think I even processed what they said. Luckily they di…

One of two times I've had police point their guns at me I was pulled over while driving my father's car. I opened the glove box when asked for license and registration and unbeknownst to me there was a Swiss army knife in there. Both officers unholstered their guns and the one at my window told me to slowly remove the knife from the glove box, but as soon as I touched it the other officer on the passenger side immediately yelled at me to "drop it!" Fortunately there were only two of them and after that they managed to get on the same page and avoid shooting me. The other time I was smoking marijuana from a pipe immediately after surviving a serious collision, I assume the guns were because they were mad they wouldn't be able to prove I was high during the accident (I wasn't).

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#684

Post by nyolfen »

anonymous231e1 wrote: post #632
dingbat wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and being woken in the middle of the night, wearing boxers or pajamas with hands in the air, better pray that they don't happen to slip down causing you to instinctively "reach for your waistband" in order to hitch them up

Anonymous for obvious reasons... This happened to me on Wednesday about 5:00am. My wife and I had gotten into a terrible fight. She suffers from terrible alcoholism. This week of Christmas has been absolutely horrible as demons resurface. She awoke me from my sleep about 4am, drunk and outraged because I asked if she was wearing a robe in bed. Things spiraled very quickly out of control, my wife was out of control, a…

nothing personal man but i don't think the reason you posted this was to share an anecdote about obeying the police

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#685

Post by vidarh »

roenxi wrote: post #635
throwaway171230 wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person making the prank is in the wrong, but so are the officers. How I see it is that the officers of their own freewill took on the role of law enforcement and public service. Fully aware that they would be put in life threatening situations. Their first instinct shouldn't be to fire first to save their own skin, but be trained to take time to assess the situation and risk erring on restraint of force. Most of…

There is actually a slightly more damning view of the situation here than the moral issues around police safety. The police had complete control over how they approached this. Why then are they even in a position where they feel threatened? When we look at the outcome here, they just killed some dude for no reason. If this is acceptable to the police force; why not have them call out to the room with a megaphone? Wha…

This to me seems to be the big difference between US policing and what we're used to in e.g. most European countries: A focus on quick resolution at all cost rather than peaceful resolution.

UK police for example tends to respond with overwhelming force, clear the area if possible, and contain their potential adversary, and if possible often wait the situation out. They will use violence if they have to, but it ends up being rare.

Stupid accidents still happens (e.g. an unarmed man was shot because police worried he might be a terrorist a few years back), but serious ones are predictably few when police defaults to avoid violence, and defaults to not even carry guns. But even firearms teams who are specifically called out when a suspect is armed have few serious accidents because they're not there to shoot their way to a resolution except as a last resort.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#686

Post by tempodox »

roenxi wrote: post #635
throwaway171230 wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person making the prank is in the wrong, but so are the officers. How I see it is that the officers of their own freewill took on the role of law enforcement and public service. Fully aware that they would be put in life threatening situations. Their first instinct shouldn't be to fire first to save their own skin, but be trained to take time to assess the situation and risk erring on restraint of force. Most of…

There is actually a slightly more damning view of the situation here than the moral issues around police safety. The police had complete control over how they approached this. Why then are they even in a position where they feel threatened? When we look at the outcome here, they just killed some dude for no reason. If this is acceptable to the police force; why not have them call out to the room with a megaphone? Wha…

All the money goes to “more important” things. Police are badly educated, badly trained, badly equipped, etc. And part of a culture that views dead bodies as an acceptable outcome, “better than the alternative”.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#687

Post by vidarh »

dingbat wrote: post #159
WhatIsDukkha wrote: post #100

What bothers me about these situations is just the entire idea of "SWAT" as practiced. You are a cop with 5+ other cops. You all pull your guns. Someone comes to the door, groggy in the middle of the night. They may or may not understand you are police. They may or may not believe you are the police. They are definitely confused/frightened/angry by your presence. We now begin the dice rolling process. Since every pol…

and being woken in the middle of the night, wearing boxers or pajamas with hands in the air, better pray that they don't happen to slip down causing you to instinctively "reach for your waistband" in order to hitch them up

In general so many things can be misunderstood. E.g. when Jean Charles de Menezes was shot by anti-terror police in London who mistook him for a potential suicide bomber, one of the things brought up was how he got up from his seat in a rapid motion by lifting his arms in front of him to shift his point of gravity.

It stands out to me because they thought it was weird, but to me it's just the easiest way to get up when you're on a crowded train and there's no space to your sides to support you on.

But to a stressed out, scared armed response team even that made him seem scarier.

To this date, almost ten years later, I think of that case ever time I get up from a seat that way. Not that I expect to be mistaken for a terrorist, but because it underlines just how bad people are at interpreting body language, and how dangerous that can be when combined with stressed out armed police.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#688

Post by lamarpye »

JudasGoat wrote: post #355
gaius wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you are asking them to be is super human Here is a cop being fired for NOT shooting someone https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2016/09/12/...

That would be more relevant if it happened on the scale of the Police shooting unarmed people. That is a one off story that you are giving the same weight as something that happens every day in the US.

According to this article there were 68 unarmed people shot and killed by the police in 2017.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shoo...

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#689

Post by davemp »

PeterisP wrote: post #591
davemp wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mass shootings are almost by definition outliers

In USA, the measure "number of mass shootings per year" doesn't have real outliers, it has a reasonable number every year. In Norway, it's different, you get a streak of zeroes, followed by a 1.

Norway has __considerably__ lower population than the USA. There has to be normalization or your comparison is just bogus.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#690

Post by vehementi »

brucephillips wrote: post #656
aswanson wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/263709.php

My point is that if you did have a way of killing a commuter to save your own live, you would be justified in doing so, just as a cop is. The fact that you don't is a consequence of how driving works, not of power that society is stripping you of. You do have this right on the street, for instance. Just as a cop does.

So wait, if I legally have a gun in my car it'd be fine to start shooting at that erratic driver?
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