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LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

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Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#601

Post by chris_wot »

dba7dba wrote: post #491
Analemma_ wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then pick a different job. People aren't required to be police officers.

I don't claim to have inside knowledge but often many cops some to become cops because there are no better job prospects. I'm sure they would've picked a factory job or any other trade if it guaranteed life time employment and pension afterward. But these days such jobs require much studying/preparation/luck.

That’s a terrible way of hiring. If they can’t get any other job than a police officer, then that that explains a lot.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#602

Post by ams6110 »

MaxfordAndSons wrote: post #413
ryanlol wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The death of a single innocent civilian is objectively worse than the death of a single police officer.

Ironically, militarized police training teaches the exact opposite: the officer must protect their lives and the lives of their fellow officers above all else.

Source?

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#603

Post by ams6110 »

Xylakant wrote: post #319
valuearb wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any cop who shoots an innocent person during a no-knock forced entry should be automatically charged with murder.

In germany any police shooting that results in death of a human triggers an automatic investigation.

The same thing happens in the USA. In fact discharging a weapon for any reason with or without injury is going to be investigated.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#604

Post by y_u_no_rust »

WhatIsDukkha wrote: post #100

What bothers me about these situations is just the entire idea of "SWAT" as practiced. You are a cop with 5+ other cops. You all pull your guns. Someone comes to the door, groggy in the middle of the night. They may or may not understand you are police. They may or may not believe you are the police. They are definitely confused/frightened/angry by your presence. We now begin the dice rolling process. Since every pol…

That assume the police are normal balanced actors who care.. here's a video of a officer that was acquitted for torturing and murdering someone earlier this month https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OflGwyWcft8

anyway that's the united states for you the government is run by a probable rapist and the police go around murdering people and get away with it great society my ass we might as well be in saudi arabia

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#605

Post by y_u_no_rust »

neom wrote: post #109
Dove wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's reasonable or effective to entirely expect police to solve this problem. Here is the account from the article: Livingston said when the door opened, officers gave Finch commands to put his hands up and walk toward them. He complied for a "very short time" and put his hands back down. He raised them again, and then lowered them for a second time, Livingston said. "The male then turned towards the of…

When I watch the Philip Brailsford body cam footage, I find it hard to believe this is a sane assumption to operate under. The polite come in, in full tactical armer, to a guy in shorts and t-shirt, and execute him because he couldn't keep his pants up as he crawled across the floor towards them face down? Come on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OflGwyWcft8

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#606

Post by ams6110 »

bonestamp2 wrote: post #559
jeffdavis wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the appropriate response in this kind of situation?

Ideally it wouldn't get this far but at a minimum, the police should not shoot until an actual gun is seen. Thinking they are in danger is not good enough, their rules for engagement need to be as high as the military, if not higher... they should have to confirm there is an actual threat and should not fire their weapons until at least that threat is confirmed. A feeling is not enough to shoot on.

Do you actually think that "a feeling" is the training standard for deciding whether to shoot?

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#607

Post by [deleted] »

goblins wrote: post #596
servantleader wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called being a "Public Servant" for a reason. Meanwhile, the rest of us don't get any cushy pensions or any of forms of guaranteed stable government benefits like police do. Not trying to say they should consider themselves "less-than", more that they should be fucking servants. Police aren't the point! They are a necessary fixture to enable the real point- SAFE, LIVE CITIZENS.

Meanwhile you're not putting you life on the line to protect a public who couldn't give two shits about you. The police are is a game of heads they lose tails they don't win; what ever they do. No one wants to hear about the lives they save everyday, no one cares about when a cop is injured or killed doing their job; they deserved it right. It's one of the toughest jobs you can do; and you're damned if you do and dam…

[deleted]

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#608

Post by ams6110 »

r3bl wrote: post #454
Karunamon wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I’m concerned, they’re both equally liable. If this was a case of mistaken identity rather than a malicious call, we’d all be calling for the cop’s head even though it would have been the same error.

A caller just wasted the time of the SWAT unit. A SWAT unit shot an innocent man. It is very difficult for me to place both parties as "equally liable". Sure, there should be a punishment for the caller, but he didn't kill an innocent man and it sure as hell wasn't his intention to. He just didn't think of the possible consequence. In no way, shape or form does that equal to "actually put a bullet in someone innocent…

Not thinking of consequences does not absolve one from responsibilities.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#609

Post by dragonwriter »

bitwize wrote: post #394
dba7dba wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police should be prepared to die wearing the badge, with civilian casualty being an absolute last resort. I disagree. No one should be prepared to die while working a job, a job that one will have all his life.

As much as people slag off the "thin blue line" mentality it does mean something. You put that uniform on and you are the meat-shield between order and chaos, between civilization and lawlessness. You're performing a grim but necessary service , and there's no shame in retiring to civilian life if you can't or won't accept this duty. This is why soldiers are taught that they are outranked by any civilian. Every offic…

> Maybe less so today, when police work is an attractive option for violent people to let loose on civilians with legal sanction

Many of the early US “professional” forces were essentially violent ethnic gangs given official sanction to combat other violent ethnic gangs; the present violent condition is more a result of the fact that that culture had continued to shape US policing than some kind of recent deviation from historical police culture; it's more visible because of changes in media and some pro-transparency reforms, not because the actual behavior is worse.

If anything, the recent trend has been for many institutions to try to correct some of the long-standing cultural problems, but that's a long, slow process facing internal and external resistance.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#610

Post by ams6110 »

alkonaut wrote: post #139
meri_dian wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SWAT is usually only involved when it's clear there is an immediate and present danger. So of course they are going to be ready with weapons drawn. Do you want them to just waltz into (probably) dangerous situations with their hands in their pockets whistling a tune? Edit: The amount of willful ignorance displayed on HN regarding law enforcement is staggering. It's sad to see how many people here view police as the b…

There is just one way this isn’t a massive police screwup, and that’s if the person SWATed reacted in a way that was (very) threatening, such as grabbing a gun, or something that is reasonable the police could believe was a gun. My hunch here is that, just like you are suggesting, Swat teams are used incorrectly as first response in unconfirmed situations. No investigation by anyone has confirmed the threat. At the e…

In some cases an unarmed person can present a deadly threat. Though not from across the street.
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