Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

kansas.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

411–420 of 864 posts

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#411

Post by notwedtm »

ryanlol wrote: post #376
kbar13 wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you worked a job where your life is legitimately at risk then you would know that you prepare for the worst every time.

The death of a single innocent civilian is objectively worse than the death of a single police officer.

While any unnecessary loss of life is a tragedy, I would agree with your statement simply because the LEO puts on the badge knowing the risks they are accepting. The victim from this article did not. He simply answered his door, and lost his life for it.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#412

Post by prepend »

computerex wrote: post #315
freedomben wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Problem is that they typically lack the proper training and the discipline required, and act too hastily. What you are asking them to be is super human, indeed even better than a computer could in the same situation. No amount of "proper training" or "discipline" can prepare you to make perfect decisions based on imperfect data (your sensory perception, plus all the data that isn't present such as must be read from…

Yea this answer is total and utter crap. We aren't asking law enforcement to be super human, we want them to be educated and competent. The fact that the U.S is both lacking in training and competence is a well established fact. Law enforcement in the United States has proven itself to lack training and discipline by firing on innocent unarmed citizens many many times. I don't believe any other country in the world h…

Michael Slager was sentenced to 20 years for the shooting of Walter Scott, an unarmed suspect on December 7th.

So it does happen that a cop (not sure if white cops get convicted less than black cops) goes to jail for shooting people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Walter_Scott

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#413

Post by MaxfordAndSons »

ryanlol wrote: post #376
kbar13 wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you worked a job where your life is legitimately at risk then you would know that you prepare for the worst every time.

The death of a single innocent civilian is objectively worse than the death of a single police officer.

Ironically, militarized police training teaches the exact opposite: the officer must protect their lives and the lives of their fellow officers above all else.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#414

Post by ryanlol »

davemp wrote: post #377
IgorPartola wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We know it's not guns. So what's the cause? You misspelled “I want to believe it’s not guns.” I am from Ukraine originally. Poverty is the reason there. So yeah let’s have that proper safety net instead. But when we are talking about this, let’s break it down a bit between different types of violence where guns are used: police shooting suspects, gang violence, run of the mill murder, and acts of terrorism. You don…

Apparently the USA is behind Norway, Finland, and Switzerland in mass shooting deaths per 100k population [1]. For typical gun related homocides it is most certainly correlated with poverty and education. [1]: https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/sTbiw2S8fHl89qyY6AXbohcKkv...

Which year is this for? The Finland numbers don't seem right at all.

Neither do the Norway ones.

The numbers are in fact so wrong that one has to seriously question the motivations of the author, it seems like this is a propaganda piece with made up numbers designed to make the US appear slightly less terrible.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#415

Post by lb1lf »

kbar13 wrote: post #326
valuearb wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't they prepare for the most likely scenarios, i.e. it's a bogus call or misrepresented whats happening, or that the perp just wants to surrender? How often do these calls turn out to be actually dangerous? One in a dozen? A hundred? Should cops wearing body armor use sniper rifles to shoot someone on their porch several hundred feet away just on the off chance they might have a pistol in their waistband?

if you worked a job where your life is legitimately at risk then you would know that you prepare for the worst every time.

My line of work routinely puts me in the immediate vicinity of equipment which will kill me if I make a mistake. (Huge winches and their associated power systems - some in the megawatt range)

I have yet to injure myself; in large part I ascribe this to the fact that I always think and think again about what I am about to do, and how it may conceivably put me at risk, then take the required measures to eliminate that risk.

However, more importantly - I have also yet to have anybody else injured on my watch. Why? Because I am not only concerned about my own safety, but also that of anybody who are, or may possibly come, within the blast radius in case something goes pear-shaped.

I would expect police officers to do the same - though granted, most of the time they have to make their decisions much faster (which makes it even more important to think things through beforehand - and, hopefully, come up with alternatives to "Shoot at anything you are not 100% certain is harmless, then sort out the details after the gunsmoke clears."

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#416

Post by notwedtm »

Spooky23 wrote: post #358
ivanhoe wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have to approach the situation prepared for the worst case scenario. Problem is that they typically lack the proper training and the discipline required, and act too hastily. There's also a huge problem with the whole that macho, gun loving, power-tripping culture, it just makes things worse, wrong profile of people gets that kind of job.

It’s a great example of why these SWAT units shouldn’t be in every small cities police department. Paramilitary tactics should come with military discipline.

Police shouldn't be using military tactics or equipment. If those tactics/weapons are truly needed, then the National Guard should be called in.

There is a fundamental difference between military tactics/actions and law enforcement. It seems that over the past 4-5 decades, we've allowed the lines to be blurred in exchange for a false sense of security and safety.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#417

Post by MaxfordAndSons »

Spooky23 wrote: post #358
ivanhoe wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have to approach the situation prepared for the worst case scenario. Problem is that they typically lack the proper training and the discipline required, and act too hastily. There's also a huge problem with the whole that macho, gun loving, power-tripping culture, it just makes things worse, wrong profile of people gets that kind of job.

It’s a great example of why these SWAT units shouldn’t be in every small cities police department. Paramilitary tactics should come with military discipline.

Yea, this outcome seems to happen surprisingly infrequently for the amount of SWATings that occur, precisely because big city SWAT units are selected for experience and discipline. When any small town cowboy sheriff and his goons can ride in with assault rifles on a bargain bin APC courtesy of the Pentagon, these standards fall off rapidly.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#418

Post by anigbrowl »

meri_dian wrote: post #107
WhatIsDukkha wrote: post #100

What bothers me about these situations is just the entire idea of "SWAT" as practiced. You are a cop with 5+ other cops. You all pull your guns. Someone comes to the door, groggy in the middle of the night. They may or may not understand you are police. They may or may not believe you are the police. They are definitely confused/frightened/angry by your presence. We now begin the dice rolling process. Since every pol…

SWAT is usually only involved when it's clear there is an immediate and present danger. So of course they are going to be ready with weapons drawn. Do you want them to just waltz into (probably) dangerous situations with their hands in their pockets whistling a tune? Edit: The amount of willful ignorance displayed on HN regarding law enforcement is staggering. It's sad to see how many people here view police as the b…

it's clear there is an immediate and present danger

(probably) dangerous

Pick one, because, those two situations are actually quite different.

willful ignorance displayed on HN regarding law enforcement is staggering

Or maybe some of us are fully aware of that and simply don't agree with your point of view.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#419

Post by sschueller »

gort wrote: post #59

Since we're mostly debating the police action here, there's a short video available now of the fatal moment: http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article192244734.html The victim really does make a fairly unfortunate movement right before he's shot. Still I'm hardly in a position to say how far this mitigates the shooter.

Notice how one of the police cars triggers its high beams causing the victim to raise his hands instinctively to cover his eyes.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#420

Post by wott »

elygre wrote: post #115
bastijn wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here we have the exact opposite and police are often prosecuted for firing their weapon. Result is they get kicked, slapped, scolded and vocabulary assaulted by 13 year olds who know they would win the case for a judge if it comes to it (or otherwise get 40 hours of public service). Why? Because "police needs to know better and accept it as part of their job". Maybe US is a bit much to the other side but with the sta…

Where is “here”?

According to the nickname, I'd says Netherlands. But it doesn't matter, you can find people from every single country in the world holding the same (mostly fictitious) discourse.
Post reply on HN