Swatting exists because it's common knowledge that US SWAT teams are effectively military death squads in terms of both behavior and equipment.
LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
271–280 of 864 posts
Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The way things are going if a SWAT team rolled up to my house ( I know this is going to sound silly). I'd call 911 and have them on speaker phone coaching me through it. Who said you're going to get any chance to call anybody? They could just as easily break into your house shouting and pointing guns...
Of course there are scenarios out of our control. In this one particularly the victim walked out of the house and then was shot after he slipped up on one of the commands. Not to blame the victim, but his mistake lead to their over reaction. My point is even us citizens aren't experienced these situations and some guidance could help.
Maybe a brochure once a year giving tips on how to not get murdered by the police?
Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
It mystifies me why you believe anyone thinks the shooting was justified. Literally NO ONE has said that. Please try to engage with the actual debate instead of making up strawmen to attack.
The grandparent said that the person most at fault was the person who called it in. I disagree, the people most at fault were the police, by far.
I get where you're coming from, but the person who called it in named themselves SWauTistic and makes a hobby of this behavior.
Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
They have to approach the situation prepared for the worst case scenario. Problem is that they typically lack the proper training and the discipline required, and act too hastily. There's also a huge problem with the whole that macho, gun loving, power-tripping culture, it just makes things worse, wrong profile of people gets that kind of job.
> Problem is that they typically lack the proper training and the discipline required, and act too hastily. What you are asking them to be is super human, indeed even better than a computer could in the same situation. No amount of "proper training" or "discipline" can prepare you to make perfect decisions based on imperfect data (your sensory perception, plus all the data that isn't present such as must be read from…
What you are asking them to be is super human
Here is a cop being fired for NOT shooting someone https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2016/09/12/...
Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
#275Link to video of the shooting: http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article192244734.html
Couple things are clear: 1. Police took shelter behind cars, outside of handgun range, but within the range of their own rifles. 2. The victim clearly didn't carry a rifle, or any weapon with a range that can threaten the police 3. The police didn't know if the victim, who was being shouted at and shined at with high beam and confused, was the supposed hostage or hostage taker, and shot him anyways.
It's a fuckup, and the police should serve better.
Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
#276I don't see anyone here asking this: how many people are police killing who are not 100% innocent bystanders like in this case, but still didn't need to be killed? I mean, we're all outraged because they shot "some dude in his PJs" but doesn't that imply they must be shooting 10, 100x as many folks where we'd be thinking "well, he shouldn't have had a knife in his hand" or "he shouldn't have been high"? Where I live,…
Every year in the US cops kill ~1000 people. Of those ~50% are unarmed or armed with something other than a firearm. ~18% are unarmed.
Nationwide less than 100 cops are killed every year by some form of assault.
~25 people are executed via death penalty every year.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/...
Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This process is designed to have a weapon be discharged. Unfortunately, as a US civilian you need to be smart about de-escalating encounters with underpaid rage-monster cops with something close to legal immunity. Your goal should be to avoid injury or death until you can get to a lawyer.
I agree with the rest but underpaid, no. For the Oakland Police Department, where I live, the starting salary is $69,912 to $98,088. Retirement starts at 50. This job requires a GED.
> I agree with the rest but underpaid, no. For the Oakland Police Department, where I live, the starting salary is $69,912 to $98,088. Retirement starts at 50.
For a job dealing with crime reports and disputes all day and one of the routine job hazards is being shot dead at any moment, that's hardly a particularly attractive deal. Hell, I doubt there's very many people on HN would take that job for twice the pay.
Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
Somehow police in the rest of developed world are able to resist shooting a great deal of suspects on the spot. Find what's different in America and fix it.
We know what is different but we refuse to address it. I understand that many people feel the second amendment is very important, but we at least have to have the intellectual honesty to admit that shootings like this are a consequence of it. We might decide we are willing, as a society, to accept that risk, but we can’t pretend it isn’t there.
Do we know what it is?
You seem quite confident.
Americans have 101 guns per 100 citizens. Finns have 34.2 guns per 100 citizens. Icelanders have 30.3 guns per 100 citizens.
America has 110x the murder rate than Finland has. America has 13,000x the murder rate Iceland has.
Whatever the cause is, 3x the guns ≠ 110x the murder rate (or 13,000x the murder rate).
A more interesting comparison might be to examine countries with similar murder rates to the U.S., regardless of arbitrary "developing or not developing" boxes, and ask what the two countries have in common. For instance, countries with similar murder rates to the U.S. include:
• Burundi (1.2 guns per 100 residents)
• Cuba (4.8 guns per 100 residents)
• Kazakhstan (1.3 guns per 100 residents)
• Kyrgyzstan (0.9 guns per 100 residents)
• Latvia (19 guns per 100 residents)
• Niger (0.7 guns per 100 residents)
• Rwanda (0.6 guns per 100 residents)
• Somalia (9.1 guns per 100 residents)
• Turkey (12.5 guns per 100 residents)
• Turkmenistan (3.8 guns per 100 residents)
• Ukraine (6.6 guns per 100 residents)
What about the U.S. makes it more like these countries, murder-rate-wise, than more developed countries with higher gun ownership, like Finland or Iceland (both of which have far and away higher gun ownership than all the countries on that list)?
We know it's not guns. So what's the cause?
Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But the person most at fault here is the one who lied and called in SWAT in the first place. It completely mystifies me how people can think that people with guns were justified in fatally shooting someone with no guns . That kind of thing should just never happen, either subdue them or let them get away, why are you shooting them? What could they possibly have done, short of ran to the kitchen to get a knife and t…
The obvious answer is: because you think they ARE armed, and if you wait until they start shooting at you, it’s too late.
This was apparently a SWAT team that initiated a confrontation in response to a report of a situation involving firearms. Why weren't they already behind cover so that if the guy really did come out of the door shooting at them, they were protected? And if they were, why was it necessary to shoot first when the situation obviously wasn't clear at all? Nothing about this adds up.
Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
They have to approach the situation prepared for the worst case scenario. Problem is that they typically lack the proper training and the discipline required, and act too hastily. There's also a huge problem with the whole that macho, gun loving, power-tripping culture, it just makes things worse, wrong profile of people gets that kind of job.
> Problem is that they typically lack the proper training and the discipline required, and act too hastily. What you are asking them to be is super human, indeed even better than a computer could in the same situation. No amount of "proper training" or "discipline" can prepare you to make perfect decisions based on imperfect data (your sensory perception, plus all the data that isn't present such as must be read from…
No he isn't. Some people are better suited to these situations than others, and people can be better trained for it too. I've talked to more than one Iraq veteran who's troubled by how ready police are to discharge compared to the rules of engagement they used in Iraq, which were more than sufficient for them to maintain public safety.
Part of the problem is that police in America offer the default excuse of fearing for their lives in virtually every situation where they shoot someone. I doubt they're actually that cowardly, but it's been a successful formula for them in administrative proceedings.