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LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

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Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#41

Post by qaq »

guiambros wrote: post #27
qaq wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doctrine of WTF is wrong with the Police should apply here.

> ...WTF is wrong with the Police... WTF is wrong with a full-grown 25-year-old man , who thinks it's funny to waste scarce taxpayer funded resources for his own amusement, because he had a petty argument with a virtual stranger when playing an online game? Of course I'm not defending excessive use of police force, and the officer who fired the shot should be investigated too, but we need harsher penalties for swatti…

He should got to jail but if any random idiot can get any random person killed by the police that is a Police problem as we can have different training and screening procedures for police officers but we sure as hell can not guarantee that there are no idiots with access to phones.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#42

Post by sumeno »

v64 wrote: post #35
lb1lf wrote: post #18

Coming from a country where the police spends more time developing people skills than doing gun practice, it never ceases to puzzle me how the solution to any situation appears to be to shoot anything that moves on the flimsiest of assumptions, then figure out what happened afterwards. Now, I appreciate that the police in the US does face a population with more guns on hand than the Norwegian police does; this surely…

> So - the demonstrations following some police shootings aside, is there any significant push in the US to drive the police towards less lethal encounters with the public it is to serve and protect? I'm from the southern US, which is historically more conservative than the rest of the country. I'm not in any way claiming that the following viewpoints are universal and accepted in this region, but a large enough port…

3) Anyone implying that the police need to change is labeled anti police by a large portion of the population because this has become a political issue in the US and given the current political climate of identity politics there is really no reasoning with those people.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#43

Post by TheCondor »

burntwater wrote: post #14

I'm glad this person is an adult located in the U.S. Hopefully this makes for swift and severe justice. I'm sad to learn the victim was the father of two children. And I'm mad that police are shooting people, innocent or not, based on vague gestures that sorta, maybe, if you look at it from the right angle, looks a little threatening. I said yesterday that, as a hearing-impaired person, if I'm ever in a position wher…

As a person with good hearing I’m wondering what you’re supposed to do in a situation like this to avoid getting killed.

Anyone know of any stats on the military service experiences of these shooter cops? Possible ptsd? Is this fear the officer had just the result of police training or was he dodging IEDs in Iraq? I’m just curious. And WTF is it with “gamers?”

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#44

Post by MikkoFinell »

downandout wrote: post #11
superflyguy wrote: post #7

Is the policeman who killed an unarmed man at his house going to be charged? Ideally this wouldn't be a rhetorical question. How long until the police give themselves the right to kill someone annoying by anonymously phoning in a warning then making sure they're amongst the ones who turn up?

This was my immediate reaction. My guess is that the blame and punishment will all be laser focused on the caller, in an attempt to avoid a public outcry for the actual shooter’s head. That cop shouldn’t be on administrative leave, he should be in jail for murder.

Should cops have to wait until they are actually being gunned down before they can use force to protect themselves? What happened was an absolute tragedy, and every measure should be taken to avoid anything like that ever happening again. The shooting was not justified, and cops need better training, non-lethal options must be expanded, penalties for this kind of "prank" must be made harsher. Everyone agrees on that. But to call the cop a murderer, as if he had executed someone he knew was innocent, just for fun, that's not right either. Cops face actual murdering psychos on a daily basis, and must be able to respond to how the situation looks at the time. Again, not trying to justify the shooting, but trying to encourage a more nuanced perspective.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#45

Post by clarkevans »

"When confronted by a police officer, you must keep your hands up or on the drivers wheel at all times."

This seems to be the new reflex we must learn and practice? Perhaps the rule should be codified so that officers know they can't ask you to do anything else with your hands. People have been shot while complying with a request, ie, getting car registration from the glove compartment or moving closer to the officer by crawling. Just because one officer gives a command does not mean that another officer heard it.

Since this is a life or death sort of reflex, perhaps we must be teaching/practicing in elementary school and refreshers as part of drivers training.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#46

Post by dopamean »

tuna-piano wrote: post #37
lb1lf wrote: post #18

Coming from a country where the police spends more time developing people skills than doing gun practice, it never ceases to puzzle me how the solution to any situation appears to be to shoot anything that moves on the flimsiest of assumptions, then figure out what happened afterwards. Now, I appreciate that the police in the US does face a population with more guns on hand than the Norwegian police does; this surely…

Just a side note, because you’re from Norway, that may be surprising to some. The US is #1 with 1.01 guns per capita, and Norway is #9 with .31 guns per capita. In any case, i don’t think the number of guns per capita explains the difference in gun crime rates between the two. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_guns_per...

You're absolutely right. The difference is that we are a more violent society. Violence is something we value here. Just look at entertainment for children. You're way more likely to find parents more amenable to letting their children watch scenes of people being hurt than people making love. One gets a pass and the other is considered obscene.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#47

Post by maxerickson »

TheCondor wrote: post #43
burntwater wrote: post #14

I'm glad this person is an adult located in the U.S. Hopefully this makes for swift and severe justice. I'm sad to learn the victim was the father of two children. And I'm mad that police are shooting people, innocent or not, based on vague gestures that sorta, maybe, if you look at it from the right angle, looks a little threatening. I said yesterday that, as a hearing-impaired person, if I'm ever in a position wher…

As a person with good hearing I’m wondering what you’re supposed to do in a situation like this to avoid getting killed. Anyone know of any stats on the military service experiences of these shooter cops? Possible ptsd? Is this fear the officer had just the result of police training or was he dodging IEDs in Iraq? I’m just curious. And WTF is it with “gamers?”

US military people are often quite critical of the rules of engagement employed by US police.

Even in potentially more dangerous situations the military typically is much more disciplined and slower to use lethal force.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#48

Post by glenstein »

lb1lf wrote: post #18

Coming from a country where the police spends more time developing people skills than doing gun practice, it never ceases to puzzle me how the solution to any situation appears to be to shoot anything that moves on the flimsiest of assumptions, then figure out what happened afterwards. Now, I appreciate that the police in the US does face a population with more guns on hand than the Norwegian police does; this surely…

To your point about non-lethal weapons: it seems to me that we haven't yet claimed the low-hanging fruit in the US when it comes to this problem. Why not indulge the most base impulses of both silicon valley and police militarization with high tech, non lethal weapons?

It will probably introduce new problems, such as even more unnecessary use of force. It addresses absolutely none of the cultural or institutional problems. But it may also save lives and better maintain justice. A family of a person wrongly tazed has been afforded more justice than a family of a person wrongly shot and killed.

People who hold out for either a panacea or nothing will be unsatisfied. But if we can at least separate incapacitation from lethality, we may be able to save lives while still satisfying the cultural and institutional lust for violence.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#49

Post by dopamean »

clarkevans wrote: post #45

"When confronted by a police officer, you must keep your hands up or on the drivers wheel at all times." This seems to be the new reflex we must learn and practice? Perhaps the rule should be codified so that officers know they can't ask you to do anything else with your hands. People have been shot while complying with a request, ie, getting car registration from the glove compartment or moving closer to the officer…

You're totally right, however, things get really difficult when the police are barking difficult to follow orders at you. Just watch the Daniel Shaver video. The guy tried his best to comply and then was murdered for no reason.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#50

Post by insickness »

clarkevans wrote: post #25

The principal issue is: why was an unarmed man shot on his doorstep by the police. This focus conveniently absolves the police of wrong doing; e.g. "if someone didn't call in a problem, no one would be dead".

The excuse used in this case what that it looked like he was pulling a gun from his waistband. It is conveniently difficult to disprove this unless his hands are already high in the air. So basically he was shot on sight.
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