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LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

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Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#31

Post by tonmoy »

marktangotango wrote: post #29
lb1lf wrote: post #18

Coming from a country where the police spends more time developing people skills than doing gun practice, it never ceases to puzzle me how the solution to any situation appears to be to shoot anything that moves on the flimsiest of assumptions, then figure out what happened afterwards. Now, I appreciate that the police in the US does face a population with more guns on hand than the Norwegian police does; this surely…

Non US'ers should understand that Europe, and Scandinavian countries in particular, is a different world than the US. No social safety net, lack of public transportation, exorbitant health care costs, tragically ineffective 'war on drugs', guns, violent crime, poverty. Honestly, the US really kinda sucks now, for most people living here.

Just because there are hundreds of other problems does not mean we can’t focus on and try to solve one of them.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#32

Post by maxerickson »

CydeWeys wrote: post #28
qaq wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All good points except for the last one even if you could even theoretically develop practical armor that could stop cal. 50 round it would still be able to kill a person through the impact force damaging internal organs.

Not true at all. If the person firing the round can survive the momentum imparted into their shoulder from the rifle, then the person on the receiving end can survive it if they're wearing armor that spreads out the imparted momentum similarly. Basic Newton's Third Law. Also, there are .50 BMG handguns (and no, I'm not mistakenly referring to .50 AE, I mean .50 BMG). They are stupidly impractical, but they exist. You…

Large rifles work better than pushing all the recoil into the shooter.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/4/29/the-barr...

Pretty hard to put a muzzle brake on your body armor.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#33

Post by mxscho »

downandout wrote: post #11
superflyguy wrote: post #7

Is the policeman who killed an unarmed man at his house going to be charged? Ideally this wouldn't be a rhetorical question. How long until the police give themselves the right to kill someone annoying by anonymously phoning in a warning then making sure they're amongst the ones who turn up?

This was my immediate reaction. My guess is that the blame and punishment will all be laser focused on the caller, in an attempt to avoid a public outcry for the actual shooter’s head. That cop shouldn’t be on administrative leave, he should be in jail for murder.

Making such claims without background information does not help anyone. To play devil's advocate: What if the shooter had a previous case where one of his colleagues died? What if he's involved in many cases where the targets do indeed have guns and an adequate reaction is required?

I'm not saying that he's completely innocent, but calling this murder is just bullshit. Coming from a country where this is prohibited, the fact that everyone is allowed to carry guns is a much more interesting fact considering that we here usually don't have incidents like this. But that's also another discussion I guess.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#34

Post by jkestner »

_wmd wrote: post #8
paganel wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what would that make the US police forces look like? To me, as an European, it makes them look like a weapon, which you can conjure by a simple phone-call. It doesn't have to be like this.

(As another European) it's hard to see any alternative for regular people whose profession just happens to put their life at almost permanent risk, thanks to the attitude toward guns over there. I'm not sure if in Europe we'd react any different -- if you called the police to report an in-progress shooting, I wouldn't be surprised if a similar trigger-happy result emerged

Lack of surprise should not mean resignation.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#35

Post by v64 »

lb1lf wrote: post #18

Coming from a country where the police spends more time developing people skills than doing gun practice, it never ceases to puzzle me how the solution to any situation appears to be to shoot anything that moves on the flimsiest of assumptions, then figure out what happened afterwards. Now, I appreciate that the police in the US does face a population with more guns on hand than the Norwegian police does; this surely…

> So - the demonstrations following some police shootings aside, is there any significant push in the US to drive the police towards less lethal encounters with the public it is to serve and protect?

I'm from the southern US, which is historically more conservative than the rest of the country. I'm not in any way claiming that the following viewpoints are universal and accepted in this region, but a large enough portion of the population holds these viewpoints, preventing further progress:

1) Anyone who gets shot by cops must have done something to warrant being shot. Even for people who get shot during traffic stops, that person did something to get pulled over in the first place. If they had a criminal record in the past, even if they didn't commit an offense during the situation where they were killed, there's a good chance they would have offended again, and this preemptive killing probably prevented a future crime.

2) In the case of this swatting incident, the blame lies 100% on the person who made the false police report. No false report, no shooting. The cop had reason to believe based on the report that the man who emerged from the door claimed to have a gun and had killed in the last hour, so it was plausible to believe he may try to retaliate and the appropriate force was used. No time for fact checking during an active shooter situation. "Shoot first, ask questions later" is considered an appropriate way for the police to deal with criminals.

Obviously there are numerous refutations, and that isn't lost on people. Many people will justify it by saying that regardless of the circumstances, the police put their lives on the line every day, so that gives them a pass when they make mistakes. Many people would view your suggestions as weakening the police, and the militarization of US police is viewed by many as making us safer, not less safe.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#36

Post by rboyd »

superflyguy wrote: post #7

Is the policeman who killed an unarmed man at his house going to be charged? Ideally this wouldn't be a rhetorical question. How long until the police give themselves the right to kill someone annoying by anonymously phoning in a warning then making sure they're amongst the ones who turn up?

Seems like we'll have to wait until it's another cop or politician that gets the mistaken bullet.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#37

Post by tuna-piano »

lb1lf wrote: post #18

Coming from a country where the police spends more time developing people skills than doing gun practice, it never ceases to puzzle me how the solution to any situation appears to be to shoot anything that moves on the flimsiest of assumptions, then figure out what happened afterwards. Now, I appreciate that the police in the US does face a population with more guns on hand than the Norwegian police does; this surely…

Just a side note, because you’re from Norway, that may be surprising to some. The US is #1 with 1.01 guns per capita, and Norway is #9 with .31 guns per capita.

In any case, i don’t think the number of guns per capita explains the difference in gun crime rates between the two.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_guns_per...

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#38

Post by pavel_lishin »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #16
bob_theslob646 wrote: post #10

Edit: I didn't realize that it takes about 40 minutes for a tranquilizer to take effect, if they hit the target in the right spot. I apologize for my stupidity.

Because life isn’t a movie and there aren’t tranquilizers that work reliably fast enough to avoid the other party shooting back?

Not to mention that the wrong dosage, or an interaction with something else in their system, makes a tranquilizer gun potentially as lethal as a regular handgun or a taser.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#39

Post by rdtsc »

paganel wrote: post #5
copper_think wrote: post #2

Like Brian Krebs said yesterday on his blog -- it seems like the doctrine of felony murder should apply here.

And what would that make the US police forces look like? To me, as an European, it makes them look like a weapon, which you can conjure by a simple phone-call. It doesn't have to be like this.

It is a weapon effectively. Psychopaths and criminals will not hesitate to use it. During Communist times in Soviet Union same thing could happen if a neighbor denounced you for spreading anti-government propaganda, while say in reality they just didn't like your sheep grazing too close to the fence. Families ended up disappearing overnight because of it.

It is basically using the irrationality of a power structure as leverage.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#40

Post by JoeAltmaier »

v64 wrote: post #35
lb1lf wrote: post #18

Coming from a country where the police spends more time developing people skills than doing gun practice, it never ceases to puzzle me how the solution to any situation appears to be to shoot anything that moves on the flimsiest of assumptions, then figure out what happened afterwards. Now, I appreciate that the police in the US does face a population with more guns on hand than the Norwegian police does; this surely…

> So - the demonstrations following some police shootings aside, is there any significant push in the US to drive the police towards less lethal encounters with the public it is to serve and protect? I'm from the southern US, which is historically more conservative than the rest of the country. I'm not in any way claiming that the following viewpoints are universal and accepted in this region, but a large enough port…

Its a very different world if you're not white and live in the American South. Easy to believe the best, when you are relatively safe.
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