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Concussion doctor says he found CTE in living NFL player

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Re: Concussion doctor says he found CTE in living NFL player

#161

Post by Anon1096 »

logicchains wrote: post #136
smt88 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) I find that hard to believe. Where did you read this? Injuries-per-minute playing rugby are surely higher than when riding a car. 2) Rugby is recreation. Riding in a car is a necessary part of daily life. Regardless of risk, one can be given up much more easily.

>Riding in a car is a necessary part of daily life. That's a very America-centric point of view, and completely not true if you live in a city designed to accommodate high-density living (or at the very least one without terrible public transport).

This comment is pedantic and unnecessary. For people that have to ride in a car to go places, it absolutely is necessary.

Re: Concussion doctor says he found CTE in living NFL player

#162

Post by creaghpatr »

brightball wrote: post #156
mobilefriendly wrote: post #68

There's a lot of hate towards the NFL but the NCAA is an even worse actor on CTE. 70,000 college players every year, and they aren't paid professionals like the NFL. But NCAA programs make billions of dollars off of the players (and their coaches millions). Destroying brains for profit, in the context of the education system, is truly evil.

NCAA programs do not make billions of dollars. All NCAA programs combined might have that much total revenue. http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/ Clemson, where I went to school and the current defending champs had a budget of $104,000,000. Of that, they spent $103,000,000. If you'd be so kind as to identify the shareholder who's rolling in that $1 million profit I'd appreciate it. When I was in school around 2…

$104M was the budget, Clemson produced $45M in revenue last year, notably less than half of Alabama the other national championship team. But these two teams are likely outliers, way less revenue per school on the long tail.

http://www.businessinsider.com/football-revenue-alabama-clem...

Re: Concussion doctor says he found CTE in living NFL player

#163

Post by unexpected »

outsideoflife wrote: post #89

For my American cousins I thought I would mention a little more about Rugby Union. Concussion is less of a problem in Rugby than in American football, and this is not an accident. Rugby is addressing this in several ways. 1) Years of rule changes, and stricter enforcement. Now a top level player who tackles someone above the shoulder, or tackles without attempting to hold on (so no clothes-linse or body checks) will…

CTE is not about concussions. CTE is about repeated, sub-concussive hits (https://concussionfoundation.org/CTE-resources/subconcussive...)

So, I don't think it's fair to say that you're not "killing the brains of your young men". Based on the best research available, Rugby players, who may be at less risk for concussions due to the safety protocols you have outlined, are still at a high risk for CTE.

Re: Concussion doctor says he found CTE in living NFL player

#164

Post by querulous »

bocklund wrote: post #119
snomad wrote: post #111

Their is some measurable chance the NFL and football disappear w/in 30 years. Sooner or later a college / high school will lose a lawsuit for a player w/CTE, and schools will have no choice but to stop participation. Once that happens, talent level and interest in the sport will die off. Kinda silly cities are in such a rush to continue building new stadiums. The unspoken elephant whenever these studies come up is sk…

I don't think a lawsuit will stop it. There's too much money and citizen support. One way or another, they would settle and it would go away.

as soon as there's a precedent that schools (particularly high schools but also colleges) are financially responsible for CTE in football players (and possibly other sports) they'll be unable to get insurance which means those programs will be shut down

without school programs as a pipeline the nfl probably can't continue to exist

Re: Concussion doctor says he found CTE in living NFL player

#165

Post by wils1245 »

brightball wrote: post #160
hyperbovine wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why in God’s name should an institution of higher learning have a nine-figure athletics budget? That is just pure lunacy. The NCAA represents everything that is sleazy and wrong with the relationship between colleges and athletic programs, that is why everyone hates them. When the reckoning finally comes, and it will, we will look back upon this period and marvel.

Why shouldn't they, exactly? As earlier stated, they supporting multiple programs with multiple facilities, scholarships, Title IX, coaches, strength programs, trainers/medical support, practice facilities, etc. Of all of those programs, at most schools only 1 or 2 actually MAKE money. At Clemson, the football program supports EVERY other scholarship sport that competes at the D1A level.

Is the profit you’re counting at Clemson including stadium outlays?

Re: Concussion doctor says he found CTE in living NFL player

#166

Post by rsync »

outsideoflife wrote: post #89

For my American cousins I thought I would mention a little more about Rugby Union. Concussion is less of a problem in Rugby than in American football, and this is not an accident. Rugby is addressing this in several ways. 1) Years of rule changes, and stricter enforcement. Now a top level player who tackles someone above the shoulder, or tackles without attempting to hold on (so no clothes-linse or body checks) will…

"The size of the people. In both sports their has been an increase in the mass of the players. However US football players seems disproportionately massive. In Rugby their are not rolling substitutions, so you have to carry that mass around for 80 minutes, and therefore a compromise is necessary, perhaps gridiron could restrict the number of subs, or the squad size so the bruisers actually had to run."

You are correct that NFL players are much, much larger than comparable rugby players. NFL linemen are enormous.

And they can run. It is not uncommon in 2017 to see 300+ pound linemen that can run quite fast. Michael Oher, the subject of the Michael Lewis book _The Blind Side_[2] is 6'4", has an actual weight of 320+ pounds, and is described to move very quickly on the basketball court.

However it is not these large players that are involved in the concussion hits. It is the "smaller" 200+ pound players who, while wearing full pads, can run as fast as olympic sprinters and launch themselves into opponents at full speed.

I'm afraid the "bruisers" can already run and the "small guys" are the size of normal rugby players. And are faster.

This is why I find the NFL so enormously compelling: In the 21st century, what happens in an NFL game is otherworldly.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Oher

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blind_Side:_Evolution_of_a...

Re: Concussion doctor says he found CTE in living NFL player

#167

Post by wils1245 »

nol13 wrote: post #132
whyleyc wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Both activities were always clearly likely to be harmful". With the benefit of 70 years of medical research this is an easy statement to make, but at the time this was far less clear - smoking was for a long time actively promoted as having health benefits [1][2] It's easy from a modern perspective to look back and apply our accumulated wisdom, but it was not self-evident that smoking was necessarily bad. Otherwise…

And yet the stereotype of the dumb football jock who's had his head knocked a few too many times has been prevalent as long as I can remember. It's just that previously it was used as a punchline in sitcoms rather than seen as a serious health risk to our children. Except for 'Varsity Blues' (1999) I guess, and I'm sure other examples, where the evil coach telling the kid to play when another head injury could kill h…

That may be so, but the widespread knowledge that most/all football players sustain serious brain damage was not there yet. Big hits that left the opponent slow to get up or unsteady on his feet were celebrated, on the assumption that he’d be able to shake it off after a day or so.

That said, I do think the destructiveness of football in knees and backs has long been known. I remember them being detailed when reading “where are they now?” articles in Sports Illustrated as a kid (I’m 30).

Re: Concussion doctor says he found CTE in living NFL player

#168

Post by wils1245 »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #117
code_duck wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is that both activities were always clearly likely to be harmful, if you took a step back from the cultural perspective that accepted them so thoroughly. Smoking tobacco is inhaling an acrid a mix of chemicals that makes you cough, kind of feel sick and lightheaded, smells awful and leaves a tan stain - it’s not hard to guess that it’s not healthy. Remember that half of people who die from tobacco die from…

Edit to add, It’s a bit frustrating, because surely if one was to stand up 30 years ago and say “hey, I don’t think this high school football program is a good idea because I’m worried about all these young people knocking their heads together with full force”... The response would have been to mock you and dispute it, if they paid any attention at all. 30 years ago? I bet you’d get this reaction today in large swath…

A couple that’s related to me had their kid play football in a rural area of the US. She’s a lawyer, and he has some memory issues from high school football. It blows me away that their kid plays.

Re: Concussion doctor says he found CTE in living NFL player

#169

Post by wils1245 »

slg wrote: post #79
mobilefriendly wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well over 1 million American boys and young men play football every year. The game is a rite of passage. Further these studies have implications for head contact that occurs in other sports and in general.

>these studies have implications for head contact that occurs in other sports and in general. Football is clearly the worst offender, but at the high school level the rate of concussions really isn't that far behind for hockey, lacrosse, soccer, wrestling, and basketball. Even a complete non-contact sport like baseball has a concussion rate that is 10% of football's rate. So the question isn't really what percentage…

I don’t think concussion rate is the right metric. Football’s CTE risk is supposed to be from the incidental head to head contact that happens every play.

Re: Concussion doctor says he found CTE in living NFL player

#170

Post by wils1245 »

snomad wrote: post #111

Their is some measurable chance the NFL and football disappear w/in 30 years. Sooner or later a college / high school will lose a lawsuit for a player w/CTE, and schools will have no choice but to stop participation. Once that happens, talent level and interest in the sport will die off. Kinda silly cities are in such a rush to continue building new stadiums. The unspoken elephant whenever these studies come up is sk…

I think a lawsuit stopping the sport is highly unlikely. It’ll die off gradually as the game is starved off of young participants, which sap it of both elite players and viewers. See: boxing.

And I think it’s much too soon to say other sports with occasional head impacts are bad to do now that football is known to be unsafe. Football has head to head collisions as a matter of course, every play. Soccer, with the header, is much more likely to be next to come under scrutiny IMO.

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