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India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

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Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#271

Post by murukesh_s »

kamaal wrote: post #224
murukesh_s wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not even in the US or any part of the world, will rewrite their syllabus and text books The situation is different in India.. Our schools, though are called the same name as institutions in US, are basically skill training workshops. Last time I checked there are 100000 graduates coming out of school in each state, and there would be at least a million engineering graduates produced every year throughout whole of I…

>>Our schools, though are called the same name as institutions in US, are basically skill training workshops. All schools/colleges are that way. Unless you join a PhD program. Also in the west, emphasis on taking skill based courses is high. They even have a term for the other type of courses, they call it, Underwater basket weaving . >>Last time I checked there are 100000 graduates coming out of school in each state…

>>Why only ML/AI? Because they are in demand now?

NO only that, but because it can be the new IT. Java, Hadoop etc are only languages and frameworks, that had at most a life span of a decade. But ML/AI is a whole new world. If things are going to be progressing in the current pace, then ML/AI could have a big impact on the world as the personal computers did and can be the next big thing of this century.

All this automation and job loss that the original article saying would be nothing if AI comes into full effect. There could be serious job losses all over the world. And with the biggest of population in the whole world, India would be the worst affected.. It is best for any country's interest to progress in AI so that they could have a say in future policy related to AI, not to mention getting more jobs related to that field.

Few of the several fields that could be affected by a combination of AI/Robots/Automation that I could think of ->

> Manufacturing / Factory workers > Defence personnel > Agriculture > Auto drivers (Taxi, Truck, Rail, Ship whatsoever) > Teaching (Virtual teaching) > Construction (Ready-made materials combined with smart machines) > Medical professionals (X-Ray diagnostics etc) > Doctors (though far-stretched but could be possible)

Why now? No body have solid answers when or will this happen, but if you look closely it's been only couple of years that machines got the ability to beat humans in at least few tasks we figured would require advanced intelligence, including accurate visual/speech recognition. That coupled with smart robots, and automation could replace a large percentage of existing jobs. Self-driving cars are a proof of this. This is little scary, but not alarming if there are proper policies in place. Any country need to be in the forefront of this technology or else can get sidelined really quickly.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#272

Post by [deleted] »

kamaal wrote: post #224
murukesh_s wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not even in the US or any part of the world, will rewrite their syllabus and text books The situation is different in India.. Our schools, though are called the same name as institutions in US, are basically skill training workshops. Last time I checked there are 100000 graduates coming out of school in each state, and there would be at least a million engineering graduates produced every year throughout whole of I…

>>Our schools, though are called the same name as institutions in US, are basically skill training workshops. All schools/colleges are that way. Unless you join a PhD program. Also in the west, emphasis on taking skill based courses is high. They even have a term for the other type of courses, they call it, Underwater basket weaving . >>Last time I checked there are 100000 graduates coming out of school in each state…

[deleted]

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#273

Post by cm2187 »

kalleboo wrote: post #263
cm2187 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure throwing more people at the problem will help. Developers need to stop making rookie mistakes. Parameterize all queries, question input coming from the client. Pretty much every major data leak was the result of someone doing something stupid like setting the permissioning to public on a repository rather than not being staffed to do it right.

> Developers need to stop making rookie mistakes And how do you get them to do that? You hire security engineers to do training, code reviews, internal pentesting...

I am afraid this is just more lipstick on the pig of a fundamental problem of the industry: the combination of 1) anyone can call himself a programmer and incompetence is widespread and 2) every company trying to maximize the data collection in the hope that will be valuable.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#274

Post by kamaal »

fizwhiz wrote: post #247
kamaal wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its strange that you take the names of CEOs and proceed to deduce that as a proof of them being good programmers. Most of them go to Ivy league engineering schools, and then Ivy league management schools. And then from there straight jump into management barely spending any time at all in engineering. And the whole reason why they do engineering is largely because they need a bridge course to get into a masters level…

> Only thing IITians are good at is self worship. It's almost as though you've got an axe to grind with people having any respectable pedigree.

They did damage to their own selves by flashing their degrees as some kind of life long privilege, while contributing a net negative to the Indian economy(As their education is heavily subsidized at the Indian tax payers expense).

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#275

Post by eksemplar »

john_moscow wrote: post #38
eksemplar wrote: post #2

It'll probably get worse for a lot of people. I work in the public sector, in a municipality. Our IT department has been relatively big on the server side, utilizing consultants ever so often to ensure best practices. To be honest I'm not an operations guy, and never have been, but I do work in management and my good friend who heads the IT department is struggling to find new roles for the operations people as we're…

Out of curiosity, how does blockchain come into play with Danish municipal IT?

It doesn't yet, and by large I suspect it won't for the foreseeable future. We're doing proof of concept works on things like public records, task registration for legal oversight, landownership and such.

There is a company who've build an organizational component on blockchain tech. This may seem odd to a lot of people, but we're required by law to keep a bi-temporarily record of how our organization looked and who held responsibility for what areas and cases. So far he only option has been an old mainframe system, and it doesn't integrate too well with other components such as the pay-system. I'm not sure if blockchain will carry this responsibility, a lot of other companies are struggling to meet our demand on non-blockchain and it's an extremely hard market to enter, but the blockchain based solution came first, and is currently the only option, do who knows.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#277

Post by eksemplar »

aNoob7000 wrote: post #6
eksemplar wrote: post #2

It'll probably get worse for a lot of people. I work in the public sector, in a municipality. Our IT department has been relatively big on the server side, utilizing consultants ever so often to ensure best practices. To be honest I'm not an operations guy, and never have been, but I do work in management and my good friend who heads the IT department is struggling to find new roles for the operations people as we're…

When you talk about the cloud, do you mean SAAS, PAAS, or IAAS? I'm asking because we looked into moving our infrastructure to the cloud and the numbers just didn't add up. We've started to move some application to SAAS but most of the stuff just doesn't make sense to move to the cloud.

SAAS and parts IAAS. We've already moved our operations to a "private" cloud we run on servers we rent, but we're positioning ourselves to go full scale Azure.

Business case wise it doesn't make sense to move just to go cloud. When we moved into the rented cloud we did it instead of replacing our old servers that were end of life. This meant we saved money over all because buying and running your own hardware is expensive.

Similarly it wouldn't make sense to move our SQL cluster into Azure just for the heck of it. However when our SQL server license is up for renewal, the move to the cloud will be the best financial option.

In development the story is a tad different. Our operations wizards can't do everything that our developers (both our own but also on open scourge components) require. We're almost 100% Microsoft in operations, but we run 370 different systems and some of these run in Linux, php, nodes, python and so on. By utilizing the cloud, we won't need a certified red hat guy on premise because Microsoft (or Amazon) will handle things like patch management and security updates. Or in other words, it's more expensive to run our applications on a SAAS platform than on our own servers, but it gives us much more freedom to chose and build the applications to support our primary business of meeting the needs of our employees and citizens.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#278

Post by kamaal »

murukesh_s wrote: post #271
kamaal wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Our schools, though are called the same name as institutions in US, are basically skill training workshops. All schools/colleges are that way. Unless you join a PhD program. Also in the west, emphasis on taking skill based courses is high. They even have a term for the other type of courses, they call it, Underwater basket weaving . >>Last time I checked there are 100000 graduates coming out of school in each state…

>>Why only ML/AI? Because they are in demand now? NO only that, but because it can be the new IT. Java, Hadoop etc are only languages and frameworks, that had at most a life span of a decade. But ML/AI is a whole new world. If things are going to be progressing in the current pace, then ML/AI could have a big impact on the world as the personal computers did and can be the next big thing of this century. All this aut…

>>But ML/AI is a whole new world.

For almost all programmers who will eventually work with this thing, they will mostly use some frameworks to do it. The real math behind all this stuff is quite old. There are already courses available to do that. Indian statistical institute offers beginner to advanced courses in statistics which you can take, they have been available for decades now.

Anything that you will likely do with ML/AI will likely involve using a framework today.

>>All this automation and job loss that the original article saying would be nothing if AI comes into full effect.

We don't even know if that kind of AGI is possible, let alone achieving it anytime soon.

Heck we haven't even come close to defining what AGI is.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#279

Post by sumedh »

jorblumesea wrote: post #179

I truly believe offshore IT work was mostly a scam in the first place. The work they produced was of very low quality, and often was more expensive because you had to go back in and fix everything. The whole game was to overcharge western firms for cheap crap produced by shoddy programmers overseas. The IT outsourcing firms would pocket the difference. Come in and promise the world, overbill and underdeliver. Then th…

Why has been the scam running for almost 30 years now?

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#280

Post by [deleted] »

kamaal wrote: post #269
sandGorgon wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suggest you go and check the senior leadership on LinkedIn for the current stream of startups and large companies. Even more - we have expats actually building successful and highly funded startups in India. Take a look at Zoomcar, Zestmoney and CreditMate. India is extremely startup friendly for foreigners - maybe not as friendly as the US, but definitely more than Europe, China, etc. We are one of the world's lar…

Yeah sure. You can get senior leadership anything, as long as you pay 5x the market standard pay. This is for companies who are a net negative in profit. 'Funding stats' don't mean anything in this case where they have to keep dumping money never to see any returns. This will hurt the long term ecosystem even for genuine start ups. As investors will largely look at India as some kind of a money sink, where rogue uppe…

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