Big Tech Is Going After Health Care • Hacker News Board

Re: Big Tech Is Going After Health Care

#161

Post by aviv » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 5:50 AM UTC

jakevn wrote: post #149

aviv wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is slowly trickling in. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/03/12/fasting-for-th... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684131/ I personally know multiple people that did listen to me and others who told them about the healing powers of a water fast, and cured their illnesses by doing it. There's really no downside. You are not "starving" yourself. That is such an insane myth. I myself did too - got…

So, no studies linked, just a quote collection and an interview?

I am not aware of any study (that has been made public, remember they always have that option at the end) by a pharmaceutical company or university that was set out to test whether water fasting for 5+ days is beneficial in treating or curing disease.

Several reasons:

1. They conducted one, but didn't like the results.

2. "Don't ask what you don't want to know the answer to" applies here - there is ZERO benefit in discovering that water fasting indeed reverses diseases to which these entities have vested interest in keeping their symptoms a lifelong struggle to patients. Nothing good would come out of it for them. The entire modern medical business model would collapse.

Tin foil hat? Sure, label me that. All I can do is drop tidbits that may be helpful to someone now or in the future. I already know that I've helped a couple dozen people personally in the last few years, myself included.

Those people would still be in a very bad shape if they waited for government or pharma company to endorse what has already been proven to be used successfully for hundreds of years as a primary healing treatment.

Re: Big Tech Is Going After Health Care

#162

Post by nradov » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 5:50 AM UTC

aviv wrote: post #156

nradov wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want anyone to believe you then I would expect to see evidence from a large scale, double-blind clinical study published in a respectable medical journal. Find some researchers yourself and help put it together. Since there's no expense for medicine or food it ought to be fairly cheap to run. Despite your ridiculous conspiracy theory, hospitals and universities frequently conduct studies that aren't funded by…

Look into research and patient treatment results by the likes of Dr Herbert Shelton. There is quite a bit of literature to support caloric restriction and in particular water fasting as ideal treatment option for many diseases once you filter out MSM sources that tell you it's a lie (and in the same page push you ads by Pfizer.. yep, clearly unbiased!) It's not about who funds the research - there is literally no ben…

Are you referring to this one?

Shelton, Herbert M. Fasting Can Save Your Life: How Christians Can Change World Events Through the Simple, Yet Powerful Tools of Prayer and Fasting. Natural Hygiene Press, 1964.

Please.

Re: Big Tech Is Going After Health Care

#163

Post by aviv » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 5:54 AM UTC

nradov wrote: post #162

aviv wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look into research and patient treatment results by the likes of Dr Herbert Shelton. There is quite a bit of literature to support caloric restriction and in particular water fasting as ideal treatment option for many diseases once you filter out MSM sources that tell you it's a lie (and in the same page push you ads by Pfizer.. yep, clearly unbiased!) It's not about who funds the research - there is literally no ben…

Are you referring to this one? Shelton, Herbert M. Fasting Can Save Your Life: How Christians Can Change World Events Through the Simple, Yet Powerful Tools of Prayer and Fasting. Natural Hygiene Press, 1964. Please.

Please what?

Do you have proof that you know of someone who water fasted for extended period of time and was not cured or was harmed?

Because I DO have the opposite proof.

So your empty statements and insinuations is just trolling.

Re: Big Tech Is Going After Health Care

#164

Post by aviv » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 5:56 AM UTC

nradov wrote: post #162

aviv wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look into research and patient treatment results by the likes of Dr Herbert Shelton. There is quite a bit of literature to support caloric restriction and in particular water fasting as ideal treatment option for many diseases once you filter out MSM sources that tell you it's a lie (and in the same page push you ads by Pfizer.. yep, clearly unbiased!) It's not about who funds the research - there is literally no ben…

Are you referring to this one? Shelton, Herbert M. Fasting Can Save Your Life: How Christians Can Change World Events Through the Simple, Yet Powerful Tools of Prayer and Fasting. Natural Hygiene Press, 1964. Please.

Seriously - why would someone like you be so opposed to water fasting?

Think about it for one minute - patients go through extreme treatments like chemo, radiation, Remicade, whatever - anything to get better, right? Why is exposing your body to crazy treatments so accepted, but this isn't? Nobody is telling you to expose yourself to chemicals, eat crazy things, drink concoctions.. really. What's your issue with water fasting? Such a pure process.

So why not give this a shot? Type 2 diabetes people in fact see results in a matter of few days. What do they have to lose? I'm sure you're intelligent enough to realize water fasting for extended but still short enough of timeframe is not starvation, right?

If you could make an effort for 5 days for the chance of never having to suffer from Type 2 diabetes - why the heck not give the patient the information? This is sick, truly sick, and people like you are keeping it so.

Re: Big Tech Is Going After Health Care

#165

Post by aviv » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 6:02 AM UTC

jakevn wrote: post #149

aviv wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is slowly trickling in. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/03/12/fasting-for-th... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684131/ I personally know multiple people that did listen to me and others who told them about the healing powers of a water fast, and cured their illnesses by doing it. There's really no downside. You are not "starving" yourself. That is such an insane myth. I myself did too - got…

So, no studies linked, just a quote collection and an interview?

Here some more links for you to dismiss:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1934590914...

https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1741-...

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413115...

Re: Big Tech Is Going After Health Care

#166

Post by nradov » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 6:02 AM UTC

aviv wrote: post #164

nradov wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you referring to this one? Shelton, Herbert M. Fasting Can Save Your Life: How Christians Can Change World Events Through the Simple, Yet Powerful Tools of Prayer and Fasting. Natural Hygiene Press, 1964. Please.

Seriously - why would someone like you be so opposed to water fasting? Think about it for one minute - patients go through extreme treatments like chemo, radiation, Remicade, whatever - anything to get better, right? Why is exposing your body to crazy treatments so accepted, but this isn't? Nobody is telling you to expose yourself to chemicals, eat crazy things, drink concoctions.. really. What's your issue with wate…

On the contrary. I am not at all opposed to fasting, although extended fasts do carry certain health risks. You have presented a plausible hypothesis. Now do the hard work to validate your hypothesis by following the scientific method instead of wasting our time with unverifiable anecdotes.

Re: Big Tech Is Going After Health Care

#167

Post by aviv » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 6:04 AM UTC

nradov wrote: post #166

aviv wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously - why would someone like you be so opposed to water fasting? Think about it for one minute - patients go through extreme treatments like chemo, radiation, Remicade, whatever - anything to get better, right? Why is exposing your body to crazy treatments so accepted, but this isn't? Nobody is telling you to expose yourself to chemicals, eat crazy things, drink concoctions.. really. What's your issue with wate…

On the contrary. I am not at all opposed to fasting, although extended fasts do carry certain health risks. You have presented a plausible hypothesis. Now do the hard work to validate your hypothesis by following the scientific method instead of wasting our time with unverifiable anecdotes.

Can you please point to the study that shows extended water fasts carry certain health risks?

Posted some more links for you in another comment.

Re: Big Tech Is Going After Health Care

#168

Post by tcj_phx » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 6:05 AM UTC

joshgel wrote: post #81

aviv wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do we need technology to help improve lives when so many diseases (type 2 diabetes, Crohn's, IBS, high blood pressure, arthritis, and dozens of others) can already be reversed and prevented by simply changing a person's diet and lifestyle habits? It's really quite insane that people would rather take pills for the rest of their lives to treat symptoms of a disease than actually getting rid of it altogether by giv…

Before you become "so dismissive" of traditional physicians, you try getting someone to radically alter their lifestyle for the promise of potential benefit in 10-20 years. Even if you can point to a few people that have done it, I can point you to plenty of data that says it's really hard and most people can't. Even technology may not help: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2553448 . Edit: Also rever…

> try getting someone to radically alter their lifestyle for the promise of potential benefit in 10-20 years.

There is an incredible amount of confusion with regard to appropriate lifestyle interventions. Part of the problem is that your predecessors' predecessors (doctors in the 1950's and 1960's) came up with some simplistic and wrong advice that never got properly withdrawn: the hazard of butter and the superiority of refined vegetable oil, the hazard of salt (farmers and veterinarians give animals salt licks), estrogen as "the female hormone" -> DES babies && prescription horse urine (PREMARIN is PREgnant MARes' urIN), etc.

The American Heart Association still warns about saturated fat [0]. If science advances one funeral at a time, what can be done about organizations that insist on being wrong?

[0] https://recipes.heart.org/Articles/1013/Healthy-Cooking-Oils

Modern medicine does have some good advice, but it's very tough to separate the wheat from the chaff. I think medical professionals are just as confused as everyone else. On Christmas I heard someone (a physician's assistant) recommend an erection-killing intervention to help stop her sister's boyfriend's hair loss [1].

[1] https://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/news/20120413/propec... - this side effect might not be not universal, but is devastating to the men who suffer it.

"Palliative" drugs are commonly used. This is essentially Elisabeth Rosenthal M.D.'s rule #2 for American medicine: "A lifetime of treatment is preferable to a cure." [2]

[2] How Economic Incentives have Created our Dysfunctional US Medical Market - https://medium.com/@RosenthalHealth/how-economic-incentives-...

Dr. Brewer's pregnancy diet is supposedly quite helpful for dealing with common pregnancy problems. Iirc, the core pillars of this diet are adequate protein and "salt to taste". But conventional medicine never figured this out for itself - I've met lots of women who suffered from dangerously-high blood pressure during their pregnancies. One's diet consisted of saltine crackers - she was nauseous, and had to have labor induced before the baby killed her.

Appropriate lifestyle interventions start to benefit people right away. Coconut oil rapidly helps with alcohol cravings, for example. People can lose most of their excess weight over a period of 2-4 years. Pregnant women immediately benefit from adequate salt intake. Etc.

Doctors are doing much better today than 50 or 100 years ago. I think the industry would greatly benefit from a critical examination of common practices.

Re: Big Tech Is Going After Health Care

#169

Post by DoreenMichele » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 6:11 AM UTC

aviv wrote: post #143

fcarraldo wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve fasted for more than two weeks while suffering from a blockage large enough to prevent eating solid food. I still have Crohn’s. It’s possible and certainly important to manage inflammatory symptoms with diet, but unfortunately curing the disease through diet is just impossible. I’m glad it’s worked out for your friends. I just hope you aren’t preventing those with serious disease who need proper medical treatmen…

I don't, funny thing is I see it exactly the opposite, the traditional medical treatment and attitude towards alternative options is preventing those with serious disease from following through. 2 weeks is the minimum I've seen. Some need up to 30 and in rare, advanced cases even 40 days of fasting.

You come across very badly. Just based on how you engage, I was ready to shoot you down and I have pursued dietary and lifestyle changes for many years to manage my incurable condition. I also have recently concluded that fasting is beneficial for my condition, which flies in the face of everything I ever understood to be true.

A few thoughts:

1) Try to not overgeneralise. Even if you really know of people who were cured, that doesn't mean it is guaranteed to work every time for every case.

2) Try to develop a hypothesis as to why and how it works rather than merely asserting that it does.

3) Drop the conspiracy theory language and stance. It only hurts your case here.

I hope you really do know something useful. It might even benefit me if you do. But your presentation really needs work if you are going to get anywhere.

Best.

Re: Big Tech Is Going After Health Care

#170

Post by messick » Thu, Dec 28, 2017, 6:14 AM UTC

darkerside wrote: post #134

aviv wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know how in technology we like to say "no one got fired for buying Cisco?". Well, for them it's no one got fired for selling Lipitor.

Exactly, and it's not an irrational decision either. There's a gap in the medical system. It's really really difficult to get people to change their behavior. It requires a completely different skill set from curing, preventing, or ameliorating clinical disease. Trying to get doctors do it is quite frankly a waste of everyone's time.

This dude posted up thread that Crohn’s can be cured by a 2 week water fast, so I don’t think he’s on the same page as you.