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India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

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Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#181

The quality of the work has been subpar from what I have seen at my company. Though the biggest challenge is timezone problems and the sheer challenge it is to communicate. Though I'm sure people have had different experiences in their sectors.

The UI specs I ship get built out by a team in India and I get to review it once a week. They record a demo on video and send it to me overnight. It's the only thing we can reconcile with the time difference, since I am not able to access the staging environment (for reasons made unclear to me).

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#182
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> at the big scale the top R&D and engineering work still generally occurs in the home countries that were sending work to India and there’s little evidence that these jobs could, at scale, be done successfully by the Indian firms offshore. I was talking about this outright dismissal without any ground. > Indian IT industry was designed and built for a certain type of labor/outsourcing market. Indian IT industry got…

>>And also - we can afford couple of maids in a decent paying job and have a better lifestyle here than the west can afford. Bulk of you post is true. But lets give west the credit where they deserve. Most of us can't afford maids. May be you can. Even if we did, its more like jugaad. People in west don't need maids because they don't need maids to sweep the floor, they don't have 1 kg of road dust coming in from dug…

This is an important point. As a westerner living in Asia now, I'm always amused by the maid-mongering that goes on here: "Oh, do you have a maid, a driver, and servants?" These are widespread status symbols in Asia.

Now, of course these household servants perform valuable labour here. But where I'm from, a technologically advanced country- we've largely obviated household help. We have central HVAC, automatic dishwashers, washing machines, dryers, Amazon Echo, Nest, etc etc. There is no need for full-time maids, you see.

I'm sorry if this sounds smug, but it's true. Indians reminding westerners that they have maids is something that makes us smile knowingly. Residual colonialism in the 21st century doesn't impress us.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#183

These are mostly outsourcing companies. India's IT industry is realigning towards domestic markets and #MakeInIndia companies - it is more aspirational to join Paytm, Ola, Zomato in India than to work for a US based outsourcer. It is not even a competition anymore - I'm able to very easily get highly qualified Indians in Silicon Valley to move back and work on something cool in India. This is the reason that nobody i…

FYI all these new high tech "Made In India" companies are backed by Chinese investors. PayTM and Zomato are largely backed by Alibaba, Ola backed by Tencent,

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#184
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a good number of product companies that have large offices there (Magento, Samsung, GitLab, Wargaming, Grammarly, Ubisoft and a ton more) plus large outsourcing companies pay well and are generally working on large scale serious products

Magento is a wordpress plugin, or similar enough. Hardly a large company. Samsung is a big hardware company, I'm not sure what they would have in software job but why not. GitLab is a fully remote company, they don't recruit anywhere specifically. Their full disclosure on their (low) salaries and losing customer data is certainly driving away the senior folks I know. Game companies are the shithole of the industry, t…

Magento is the biggest online marketplace platform. If you need full control over your store you would self host the software vs using shopify.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#185
post #182
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>And also - we can afford couple of maids in a decent paying job and have a better lifestyle here than the west can afford. Bulk of you post is true. But lets give west the credit where they deserve. Most of us can't afford maids. May be you can. Even if we did, its more like jugaad. People in west don't need maids because they don't need maids to sweep the floor, they don't have 1 kg of road dust coming in from dug…

This is an important point. As a westerner living in Asia now, I'm always amused by the maid-mongering that goes on here: "Oh, do you have a maid, a driver, and servants?" These are widespread status symbols in Asia. Now, of course these household servants perform valuable labour here. But where I'm from, a technologically advanced country- we've largely obviated household help. We have central HVAC, automatic dishwa…

People in USA have maids as status symbol too

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#186
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they had a weirdly large supply you can be guaranteed an army of recruiters from FB, Amazon, Google et al would be lining up at campuses the way they do in India. The only limitation these firms face in growing faster is getting their hands on talent.

Bullshit. Tech companies are not competing for worldwide talents. The companies you quote have at most 3 offices in Europe: London, Zurich, Dublin. The first thing a recruiter will tell you is to abandon your life and your family.

A reasonable relocation package includes moving the family. I've seen a few firsthand.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

70k gross is more than what a senior developer would get anywhere in Germany or France. If you really get that much, you've got it better than all western Europe, except London and Zurich.

True. For that much money you could hire instead in Canada and not deal with language or time zone barriers.

If they could they would. Plus there are costs beyond the actual pay such as cost of heath insurance, admin costs etc.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#188
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

70k gross is more than what a senior developer would get anywhere in Germany or France. If you really get that much, you've got it better than all western Europe, except London and Zurich.

I've gotten offers for somewhat more for Amsterdam (with booking.com). I didn't take it, because I was getting way more in London at the time.

Yep they recruit actively in Ukraine and pay a bit above but again taxes are way higher.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#189
post #5

There will be many more. The India IT sector’s main play was cheap labor for low value-add IT tasks like basic dev or ops. The play a while back was to move day-to-day ops jobs to this cheap labor. Now the play is to automate this work so the jobs are disappearing. E.g when you move to the cloud with good architecture you don’t need tons of people pushing buttons and tweaking servers all day long. The India firms hav…

Might be the case with many IT services firms but assuming that so called home countries brains only can do serious engineering is quite short sighted. I head an engineering team from India and our team is local talent for a firm which is outside India. We believe we do some serious engineering. There is this west fixation that serious engineering can't be done outside. I am not saying it isn't true on most cases but…

Good engineering can certainly be done by anyone well qualified, regardless of background or upbringing. I work for a US-based hosting provider with international clients, so I get to take calls from customers (often IT teams for large clients) from all over the globe. To use India as the chosen example, I've worked with teams that could out-engineer me on a good day, that clearly knew what they were doing. I've also worked with teams that, possibly due to language barrier issues, could barely comprehend their own code base, much less anything I was attempting to help them troubleshoot. To be quite honest though, I could remove "India" from that equation entirely, because I've worked with many US "technical contacts" that, despite speaking perfect English, lack even the most basic technical skills.

The pervasive idea that westerners do seem to have, speaking from personal experience, is a bias against "cheap foreign labor." The actual problem is of course any company which poorly manages its external teams, and especially those companies which go for the lowest bidder, and then place that poorly equipped team in their Tier 1 customer support hotlines. I think this is very much a real problem, but the discussion surrounding it often invites offensive language, passionate nationalism, and stirs emotions in a way that distracts from the root of the problem.

I can't think of any way to combat it other than to come up with counter examples that paint the high quality teams in a good light, so that's what I'll continue to do. If a team does good work and I'm impressed by them, you bet my family and friends hear about it! It's not much of course, but I find it more constructive to focus on the positives and the potential solutions, rather than to concentrate on the negatives.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#190
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an important point. As a westerner living in Asia now, I'm always amused by the maid-mongering that goes on here: "Oh, do you have a maid, a driver, and servants?" These are widespread status symbols in Asia. Now, of course these household servants perform valuable labour here. But where I'm from, a technologically advanced country- we've largely obviated household help. We have central HVAC, automatic dishwa…

People in USA have maids as status symbol too

Of course they do, but not nearly to the same extent. And the point here is that in the context of this thread, using maids as a mark on the Indian lifestyle-superiority index in the shadow of IT layoffs is not a good look.
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