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India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

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Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#71

System integration is a proximity job. The last mile of a software delivery. With no physical access to their top market (H1B reform), it will continue to be tough. Capgemini, which has about the same headcount, will end with 30% more revenue than Infosys in 2017. Accenture, x3.4 the revenue for only x2 the headcount. With limited access to market with better hourly rates, they would continue to struggle. Unless they…

Those are entirely different business models - services vs products. Companies aren't always successful in making such transitions.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#72
post #16

Are the legions of "recruiters" constantly spamming my phone and inbox part of IT? I won't shed a tear for them.

Come on these are real people trying to get by. Have some empathy. It sucks being at the low end.

Most recruiters get paid more than $100K which is better than most IT folks.

https://www.topechelon.com/blog/how-much-do-recruiters-make-...

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#73
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it comes from their culture, they are not used to work hard or to do something willingly. Cut the crap. India is a country of 1.3 billion people, don't peddle bullshit stereotypes. Not working hard doesn't come from the culture; it's quite the opposite if anything. >They are doing it if they must, if someone tells them that they have to do it. Maybe the firm you are dealing with doesn't pay the employees we…

I am part Indian (albeit ethnically, not culturally) and work in finance. I always had a great experience working with Indian bankers, investors and VCs. The stereotypes puzzled me. Then I spoke to a few IT outsourcing/consulting companies. It’s horrible. Starting sentences with “no” even when agreeing, jargon-laid bullshitting, lying about simple things, overt sexism ( e.g. if my female colleague asks a question, th…

From the outside looking in ( and a handful of anecdotal encounters and work experiences) I feel like the educated Indian workforce is bifurcated between one cluster of brilliant hard working people and another cluster of... Bullshitters who try to project the visage of knowing what's going on.

But maybe that's because for better or for worse India does have an articulate culture of speaking up for yourself, and these two outlier groups just become memorable.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#74
post #5

There will be many more. The India IT sector’s main play was cheap labor for low value-add IT tasks like basic dev or ops. The play a while back was to move day-to-day ops jobs to this cheap labor. Now the play is to automate this work so the jobs are disappearing. E.g when you move to the cloud with good architecture you don’t need tons of people pushing buttons and tweaking servers all day long. The India firms hav…

Might be the case with many IT services firms but assuming that so called home countries brains only can do serious engineering is quite short sighted. I head an engineering team from India and our team is local talent for a firm which is outside India. We believe we do some serious engineering. There is this west fixation that serious engineering can't be done outside. I am not saying it isn't true on most cases but…

Engineering can certainly be done outside. However, there is a real risk in having the core business competency and value be outsourced rather than something built up with employees at the company with an interest in the company's success rather than looking at it as just the next project.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you are an Indian too, I think your remarks are kind of subjective and your reply a bit harsh, but I'll add more facts that sustain my point of view. >Not working hard doesn't come from the culture Yes it truly does. Since every individual has inherited from the environment and has been cultured that he needs to do just what he is told (the minimum), this is how he grows. >Maybe the firm you are dealing with do…

how do you explain the anamoly of indians in virtually all top jobs from ceo's of microsoft,google,pepsi etc. to pulitzer winners? while i agree with you that culture does impacts work but may be its not "indian" culture and more of a "company"culture. Having said that i don't see any contribution of india in sports, i don't know why.

Their main national sport (cricket) is really only played in handful of countries. And in those countries (AU/NZ) soccer is still more popular.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#76

It'll probably get worse for a lot of people. I work in the public sector, in a municipality. Our IT department has been relatively big on the server side, utilizing consultants ever so often to ensure best practices. To be honest I'm not an operations guy, and never have been, but I do work in management and my good friend who heads the IT department is struggling to find new roles for the operations people as we're…

we're a small managed private+public cloud services provider and we only have 2 full time operations engineers to support 30+ client companies. we also have a handful of consultants that do specialized work, working a handful of hours each month. they seem to be serving a small cluster of customers each also.

we could support 40, our existing 2 engineers are basically under-worked - we have 2 because it would be insanely irresponsible to have just 1, aside from company ownership (which is able to do the work also, if needed). if we absolutely had to, we could cut that down to 1 full time guy. let that sink in; 1 full time guy to manage 40 customers.

having said that, we're still growing as a business, because we've embraced the new reality, but it hasn't been without turnover and pain. we're also putting money into developing products.

the kicker is, even with the R+D, we're more profitable now than 5 years ago, with LESS ops folks (ostensibly less people to do the actual work, though we all know that's not what's really happening). i imagine the same exact thing is playing out with larger in-house staff, as you describe.

this is the new model. WAY more output from less but higher paid full time people, small networks of high-$ specialized consultants, and smaller firms and IT groups working in mercenary fashion. embrace it, or you will bleed yourself dry in less time than you think.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#78
post #5

There will be many more. The India IT sector’s main play was cheap labor for low value-add IT tasks like basic dev or ops. The play a while back was to move day-to-day ops jobs to this cheap labor. Now the play is to automate this work so the jobs are disappearing. E.g when you move to the cloud with good architecture you don’t need tons of people pushing buttons and tweaking servers all day long. The India firms hav…

Might be the case with many IT services firms but assuming that so called home countries brains only can do serious engineering is quite short sighted. I head an engineering team from India and our team is local talent for a firm which is outside India. We believe we do some serious engineering. There is this west fixation that serious engineering can't be done outside. I am not saying it isn't true on most cases but…

[deleted]

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you say this? Don't stereotypes come from something? Do you think it's a coincidence that a stereotypical Asian American is reserved, disciplined, and good at math, and that Asian Americans in America make considerably more than any other race[1]? Btw, "Cut the crap" is an unprofessional, unproductive way to start a conversation. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_wage_gap_in_the_United_... Edit: To…

For some background, the 'model minority' myth that you're perpetuating here is being increasingly rejected by the Asian-American community because its both reductive and dehumanizing in its characterization ('Asians are all inscrutable math wizards that get straight A's but are essentially invisible in any romantic or leadership capability') and most often trotted out by race supremacists in some twisted form of con…

Duh. Making generalizations based on everyone of a race will be wrong. But if a large percentage of a race have certain cultural values, then amplified examples those values would emerge in the stereotypes, right? Or are we to believe that stereotypes all come from nothing?
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