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World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

theguardian.com

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Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#11

Post by rstoj »

twoodfin wrote: post #2

This article provides paragraph after paragraph of supporting data that the richest have gotten richer, but none that I can see supporting its claim that “billions of poorer people across the world have seen their wealth standstill or decline”.

Good point - I wonder where that comes from, can anyone find a reference?

In any case, their wealth is increasing at a much higher rate of 23% compared with the world GDP increase of 2.4% and US' GDP increase of 1.5% (https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?end=2...).

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#12

Post by jumsdogpetter »

kachurovskiy wrote: post #4
notyourwork wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible for everyone’s wealth to increase? I think they might be assuming this is not possible and there if richest wealth increases by this much it had to come from the rest?

Rich people tend to have most of their worth in stock. In theory, assuming your stock got more expensive, you get richer without anyone in particular getting poorer.

The theory is naive, dismissive, and wrong. Stock value increases are coming from optimizations within companies that reduce employee benefits and compensation. On the consumer side of things, profits also come from taking advantage of deregulation, lowering the quality and safety of consumer products and services. Executive leadership and investors are pocketing gains made from making everyone else's lives worse.

Getting richer has a strong relationship with making others poorer.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#13

Post by mtgx »

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #10
notyourwork wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible for everyone’s wealth to increase? I think they might be assuming this is not possible and there if richest wealth increases by this much it had to come from the rest?

Yes it is possible for everyone's wealth to increase. In the year 1900 Global GDP was 1 Trillion. Today it is 77 Trillion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_world_product In Layman's the Global Pie is growing. The number of people living in extreme poverty has fallen DRASTICALLY over the last 25 years. https://twitter.com/humanprogress/status/913901718823489538 So the people with the smallest piece of the pie are s…

Even if it did increase, most of that increase is just inflation anyway. And it's usually the wealthy that benefit from inflation (at least more than regular people do).

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#14

Post by pdkl95 »

walterbell wrote: post #7
kachurovskiy wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rich people tend to have most of their worth in stock. In theory, assuming your stock got more expensive, you get richer without anyone in particular getting poorer.

Inflation = everyone in cash got poorer

Or. everyone with debt - which is usually a very large portion of the population - had their burden reduced.

edit: Ability to pay grows with inflation, by definition. Unless you have a particularly unusual type of debt, the principle is constant and the interest is based on the remaining principle and is therefor a pre-inflation value. Wages grow in absolute terms (even though their purchasing power is otherwise constant), so the debt is easier to pay off.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#15

Post by walterbell »

pdkl95 wrote: post #14
walterbell wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflation = everyone in cash got poorer

Or. everyone with debt - which is usually a very large portion of the population - had their burden reduced. edit: Ability to pay grows with inflation, by definition. Unless you have a particularly unusual type of debt, the principle is constant and the interest is based on the remaining principle and is therefor a pre-inflation value. Wages grow in absolute terms (even though their purchasing power is otherwise cons…

Along with their ability to repay their debt, so that's a wash.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#16

Post by lhkdfsakhljd »

rstoj wrote: post #11
twoodfin wrote: post #2

This article provides paragraph after paragraph of supporting data that the richest have gotten richer, but none that I can see supporting its claim that “billions of poorer people across the world have seen their wealth standstill or decline”.

Good point - I wonder where that comes from, can anyone find a reference? In any case, their wealth is increasing at a much higher rate of 23% compared with the world GDP increase of 2.4% and US' GDP increase of 1.5% ( https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?end=2... ).

Yeah, but paper tigers like Zuckerberg are on that list. The top 1500 richest includes the twiddly twins and their bitcoin empire.

They're all one tech bubble bursting from loosing most of their wealth.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#17

Post by olalonde »

notyourwork wrote: post #3
twoodfin wrote: post #2

This article provides paragraph after paragraph of supporting data that the richest have gotten richer, but none that I can see supporting its claim that “billions of poorer people across the world have seen their wealth standstill or decline”.

Is it possible for everyone’s wealth to increase? I think they might be assuming this is not possible and there if richest wealth increases by this much it had to come from the rest?

Yes, it is definitely possible and expected. Your line of reasoning is a pretty common one and is sometimes referred to as the "zero-sum fallacy" or "fixed pie fallacy"[0].

[0] http://www.aei.org/publication/the-fixed-pie-fallacy/

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#18

Post by sametmax »

poke111 wrote: post #9
notyourwork wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible for everyone’s wealth to increase? I think they might be assuming this is not possible and there if richest wealth increases by this much it had to come from the rest?

The central idea of capitalism is that voluntary exchange enriches both parties. So the answer to your first question is yes.

This assumes the exchange is symmetric, and that enrichment only happens with exchanges. Neither of these are true.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#19

Post by sametmax »

lhkdfsakhljd wrote: post #16
rstoj wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point - I wonder where that comes from, can anyone find a reference? In any case, their wealth is increasing at a much higher rate of 23% compared with the world GDP increase of 2.4% and US' GDP increase of 1.5% ( https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?end=2... ).

Yeah, but paper tigers like Zuckerberg are on that list. The top 1500 richest includes the twiddly twins and their bitcoin empire. They're all one tech bubble bursting from loosing most of their wealth.

The same kind of rich people has existed for ever. It's fair to always take them in consideration.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#20

Post by obastani »

notyourwork wrote: post #3
twoodfin wrote: post #2

This article provides paragraph after paragraph of supporting data that the richest have gotten richer, but none that I can see supporting its claim that “billions of poorer people across the world have seen their wealth standstill or decline”.

Is it possible for everyone’s wealth to increase? I think they might be assuming this is not possible and there if richest wealth increases by this much it had to come from the rest?

As many other commenters have pointed out, it is possible for net global wealth to increase (e.g., the increase in total real GDP). As far as I understand, the main reason this is possible is the development of new "technology" -- in the very general, economic sense of the word technology [0], which includes anything that increases the productivity of a single worker; this can include everything from new technology in the traditional sense to new processes (e.g., agile vs. waterfall for software development, or more optimal supply chains) and investment in infrastructure (e.g., better road networks).

For example, a single farmer today can not only produce many times more crop compared to a farmer 100 years ago, but also safely and efficiently distribute this produce to consumers across the globe. In general, assuming everyone in the economy works equally hard, the total production (i.e., the global net wealth) can increase as long as technology is increasing.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Production_function

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