DC police used sonic cannon to direct crowd flow during Women's March • Hacker News Board

Re: DC police used sonic cannon to direct crowd flow during Women's March

#141

Post by zo1 » Wed, Dec 27, 2017, 1:34 PM UTC

omegaworks wrote: post #58

Hacker News, can we come up with clever ways to undermine this growing trend toward authoritarianism? How effective are ear plugs as a countermeasure? Parabolic mirrors? How can we divest from organizations employing these anti-populist, anti-democratic measures?

I've often suggested a form of "humble-bundle"-like funding model for government functions. An application of a bit of free-market capitalism to an otherwise involuntary system. So if you wished to punish or scale-back or defund the police because they were preventing protesting using means that are too-violent for your liking, then you can simply reduce the funding that you allocate to policing in the next cycle. You vote with your tax money.

Sure, this raises issues in that it disproportionately lets people that pay more tax have a larger say in issues. But I'm sure you could allocate tax-funding in terms of vote-dollars. So (TOTAL_TAX_COLLECTED / POPULATION_COUNT = YOUR_ALLOCATABLE_FUNDING). Also, we would probably have to have a solid discussion regarding the granularity of the system. Heck, employ some sort of hierarchical ideas, too. This is, after all, 2017 so why not use more algorithmic/tech-based solutions to an institution that is still stuck in archaic times.

Oddly, I suggest this as a Libertarian/anarcho-capitalist. Because I think it could potentially strike a good balance between the state's arguable necessary functions, the involuntary nature of taxation and the problems with democratic representation.

Re: DC police used sonic cannon to direct crowd flow during Women's March

#142

Post by twobyfour » Wed, Dec 27, 2017, 1:36 PM UTC

tatersolid wrote: post #132

louithethrid wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fine, we are talking about the trhee main urban centers of the US here - not the whole country. Now that this strawman is out of the way- are we allowed to continue?

No. You don’t get to wire up NYC at the expense of all taxpayers.

NYC pays far more in both state and federal taxes than it receives in services. NY State pays far more in federal taxes than it receives in services. Rural parts of the US receive far more in services than they pay in taxes.

The rest of the country isn't paying for a thing in NYC - it's the other way around. Just leave us more of our own tax money and we could do all sorts of things that aren't currently considered possible.

Re: DC police used sonic cannon to direct crowd flow during Women's March

#143

Post by zo1 » Wed, Dec 27, 2017, 1:37 PM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #99

omegaworks wrote: post #58

Hacker News, can we come up with clever ways to undermine this growing trend toward authoritarianism? How effective are ear plugs as a countermeasure? Parabolic mirrors? How can we divest from organizations employing these anti-populist, anti-democratic measures?

I'm pretty sure that motorcycle helmets with active noise control would help a lot. Also maybe padded bodysuits. But there'd be downsides for protest groups to show up wearing such gear, no?

I think protesting is a largely useless endeavor. It's nothing but a "show of force" in meat-space, that allows the possibility of violent encounters between individuals that have opposing world-views/opinions. Rather, allow people to vote directly on issues that they are passionate about. This leads into direct democracy and is arguably a whole lot more ethical than what we have now.

Re: DC police used sonic cannon to direct crowd flow during Women's March

#144

Post by heartbreak » Wed, Dec 27, 2017, 1:38 PM UTC

fourthark wrote: post #102

heartbreak wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trump coined the term "fake news" Trump did not, in fact, coin the term “fake news”.

Didn't it mean satire, like the Daily Show and the Onion, before?

> Once upon a time (like, three [thirteen] months ago), "fake news" had a precise meaning. It referred to total fabrications — made-up stories about Donald Trump suffering a heart attack or earning the pope's endorsement — and the phrase burst into the political lexicon as Facebook and Google vowed to clean up some of the garbage that had polluted the Internet during the presidential election.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/02/09/fa...

Re: DC police used sonic cannon to direct crowd flow during Women's March

#145

Post by zo1 » Wed, Dec 27, 2017, 1:42 PM UTC

chillingeffect wrote: post #71

omegaworks wrote: post #58

Hacker News, can we come up with clever ways to undermine this growing trend toward authoritarianism? How effective are ear plugs as a countermeasure? Parabolic mirrors? How can we divest from organizations employing these anti-populist, anti-democratic measures?

the key is the u.s. is a representative democracy, not a direct democracy (only in certain elections). the strategy is to support representatives whose opinions you trust and speak persuasively to people to bring them on your side. To do this effectively, you must listen to them and understand their concerns. there is no quick-fix. you must perform this work at a slow and steady pace your entire life, never feeling c…

As much as I agree that people need to be persistent, steady and patient in their political participation. This doesn't work so long as you're importing foreign-voters en-masse that are largely voting for a specific party, or voting for politicians as a way to reward them for allowing such importation to occur.

Or, have some sort of middle ground between the large gap of representative and direct democracy. Sort of what Switzerland is doing whereby any movement can force the government, by virtue of having enough votes, into having a nation-wide referendum. And it has to be binding for the politicians, to the spirit and letter of the referendum results. Unlike what we're seeing in the UK now.

Re: DC police used sonic cannon to direct crowd flow during Women's March

#146

Post by SauciestGNU » Wed, Dec 27, 2017, 2:04 PM UTC

tatersolid wrote: post #134

omegaworks wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also believe that these abuses do not represent all police. The institution of police was created to undermine labor movements. It may behoove you to re-examine your assumption that they're there to keep you safe.

Umm... not so much. Police forces pre-date the industral revolution by over 2000 years, dating back to ancient China, Greece, and Rome. Their common duty has always been enforcement if of natural law (prevention of theft and violence or investigation and capture of such criminals). Source: Wikipedia. My local sheriff and his crew actually do protect and serve the public. As do 99% of Police in the USA.

Not to get too into the weeds here but I've found that the sheriff is generally more responsive to the public and less abusive than police forces as the sheriff is a constitutional officer who must stand election, and therefore cannot wantonly abuse the public without consequence as police departments tend to do.

Re: DC police used sonic cannon to direct crowd flow during Women's March

#147

Post by specialist » Wed, Dec 27, 2017, 2:18 PM UTC

droopyEyelids wrote: post #2

I wonder what kind of hearing protection the police use while this is active. I feel like it'd be a hazardous job to operate this frequently. Also, is it illegal for a civilian to own and use one?

I wondered the same. One of my "trigger" issues is children without hearing protection at concerts, festivals, etc. Most people are completely unaware how much irreparable damage loudness may cause.

I witnessed our local women's march. Lots of kids. (And the most chill protest march I've ever seen.) If these speakers were used directly on children, they'd certainly have damaged hearing.

Re: DC police used sonic cannon to direct crowd flow during Women's March

#148

Post by ajmurmann » Wed, Dec 27, 2017, 2:22 PM UTC

heartbreak wrote: post #144

fourthark wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't it mean satire, like the Daily Show and the Onion, before?

> Once upon a time (like, three [thirteen] months ago), "fake news" had a precise meaning. It referred to total fabrications — made-up stories about Donald Trump suffering a heart attack or earning the pope's endorsement — and the phrase burst into the political lexicon as Facebook and Google vowed to clean up some of the garbage that had polluted the Internet during the presidential election. https://www.washingtonp…

I'm shocked that yours is the only comment on here that actually remembers what happened. The actual "fake news" that was entirely fabricated as click bate was discussed for a few weeks even on This American Life if I recall correctly. There was even an interview with a guy from Georgia (the country) who made a mint making up stories that appealed to Trump supporters and now nobody remembers how that important concept was hijacked by the demagogue.

Re: DC police used sonic cannon to direct crowd flow during Women's March

#149

Post by ajmurmann » Wed, Dec 27, 2017, 2:26 PM UTC

CalChris wrote: post #85

ajmurmann wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That chart shows her popularity dropping starting around 2010 and her unfavorability going up big time in 2015. All before the election.

Now why would that be? Must have been something. Not sure what it was. Maybe you can remind me. It was repeated over and over and over, endlessly. You'd think I'd be able to remember it. I'll think of it eventually.

I honestly don't know. Was it the emails? Was it Benghazi? It's also totally irrelevant. During the primaries we had a single candidate with positive approval ratings. After the primaries we had to disliked candidates whose primary strength was that they weren't their opponent. Then the candidate with the higher popular vote lost. It's completely fucked!

Re: DC police used sonic cannon to direct crowd flow during Women's March

#150

Post by OCASM » Wed, Dec 27, 2017, 2:28 PM UTC

whamlastxmas wrote: post #79

omegaworks wrote: post #58

Hacker News, can we come up with clever ways to undermine this growing trend toward authoritarianism? How effective are ear plugs as a countermeasure? Parabolic mirrors? How can we divest from organizations employing these anti-populist, anti-democratic measures?

We need a better voting system than we do now. I strongly believe we'll see much better representation when we can vote outside the two party system without throwing away a vote.

That presumes people wouldn't vote in favor of authoritarian practices.