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We’re Going to Need More Lithium

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Re: We’re Going to Need More Lithium

#11

Post by toomuchtodo »

QAPereo wrote: post #2

It might cost more, but it’s certainly abundant; we’re not going to run out of it. No I would even go so far as to say that a rise in the price of terrestrial lithium would be a good thing. In the short term it will hurt, but there’s a lot of runway in that graph before we hit serious scarcity. As the price rises I could honestly see someone like Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos finally astroid money off the ground. I don’t h…

Lithium can be extracted from the ocean at commercially viable costs, no asteroid mining required.

Re: We’re Going to Need More Lithium

#12

Post by TeMPOraL »

irrational wrote: post #10
zzzzzzzza wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

mining asteroids in our lifetimes would primarily be useful for harvesting raw materials for constructing things in space, not sending the materials back down to earth.

Isn't sending things back to earth relatively inexpensive? Wouldn't gravity do most of the work?

You need to first send equipment to do the mining and sending back - that part is very expensive, and if it's only to be used for sending stuff back to Earth (safely), then mining in space has very bad returns.

Asteroid mining is absolutely awesome if you move as much of the process as possible to space - every kilogram you use up there to build something is a kilogram you didn't have to launch upwell.

Re: We’re Going to Need More Lithium

#13

Post by snowmaker »

nsnick wrote: post #8
robbrown451 wrote: post #6

How sure are we that some new tech won't replace lithium ion batteries? I'd want to know that if I was investing in a mine.

The reason lithium is used for batteries is that it is an excellent anode the lightest metal. Lithium will always be used for batteries that need to be light.

Relevant article from 11 days ago on sodium battery development: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15938642

Re: We’re Going to Need More Lithium

#14

Post by mrob »

nsnick wrote: post #8
robbrown451 wrote: post #6

How sure are we that some new tech won't replace lithium ion batteries? I'd want to know that if I was investing in a mine.

The reason lithium is used for batteries is that it is an excellent anode the lightest metal. Lithium will always be used for batteries that need to be light.

True, but we can't be sure that no breakthrough in fuel cells or supercapacitors will make batteries obsolete.

Re: We’re Going to Need More Lithium

#15

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

irrational wrote: post #10
zzzzzzzza wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

mining asteroids in our lifetimes would primarily be useful for harvesting raw materials for constructing things in space, not sending the materials back down to earth.

Isn't sending things back to earth relatively inexpensive? Wouldn't gravity do most of the work?

You've got to find a way to go from over 20,000k per second to stationary on the ground. For any worthwhile mass of asteroid you bring back to Earth, it's going to require one hell of a heat shield during reentry.

So maybe you leave the heat shield in orbit, but you've still got get it there.

I think space mining becomes possible when you're no longer cornered by the rocket equation. That is, it's going to require a breakthrough in propulsion systems.

Re: We’re Going to Need More Lithium

#16

Post by TeMPOraL »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #9
zzzzzzzza wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

mining asteroids in our lifetimes would primarily be useful for harvesting raw materials for constructing things in space, not sending the materials back down to earth.

Either will require a breakthrough in propulsion systems.

Not necessarily. In the near term, mining asteroids means mining near-Earth asteroids, not those from the belt.

The changes we'll need to make to propulsion systems are more about their operations - we need more types of engines that can be frequently shut down and restarted.

Re: We’re Going to Need More Lithium

#17

Post by TeMPOraL »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #15
irrational wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't sending things back to earth relatively inexpensive? Wouldn't gravity do most of the work?

You've got to find a way to go from over 20,000k per second to stationary on the ground. For any worthwhile mass of asteroid you bring back to Earth, it's going to require one hell of a heat shield during reentry. So maybe you leave the heat shield in orbit, but you've still got get it there. I think space mining becomes possible when you're no longer cornered by the rocket equation. That is, it's going to require a…

> I think space mining becomes possible when you're no longer cornered by the rocket equation. That is, it's going to require a breakthrough in propulsion systems.

I think near-Earth space mining and manufacturing is what can help us get over that limit in some way - LEO is halfway to anywhere in the Solar System ∆v-wise, so whatever part of your mission you don't have to lift upwell makes for huge savings in fuel (and for many missions, you can use weaker and more efficient engines once you're on a stable orbit).

Re: We’re Going to Need More Lithium

#18

Post by TeMPOraL »

mrob wrote: post #14
nsnick wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason lithium is used for batteries is that it is an excellent anode the lightest metal. Lithium will always be used for batteries that need to be light.

True, but we can't be sure that no breakthrough in fuel cells or supercapacitors will make batteries obsolete.

We can't be sure that there won't be a breakthrough that will make all our phones and cars run on adenosine triphosphate, like everything else on this planet. But right now we have to work with what we have, and whatever knowledge and experience we thus gain will likely be useful post-unexpected-breakthroughs anyway.

Re: We’re Going to Need More Lithium

#20

Post by Overtonwindow »

A novel idea for lithium is that much of our lithium recycling is done in other countries. If the government were to classify lithium as strategic security material, it would severely limit its exportation. Ergo retaining more of it domestically and encouraging domestic recycling. Lithium may arrive but it can never leave, so to speak.
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