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DC police used sonic cannon to direct crowd flow during Women's March

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Re: DC police used sonic cannon to direct crowd flow during Women's March

#71

Post by chillingeffect »

omegaworks wrote: post #58

Hacker News, can we come up with clever ways to undermine this growing trend toward authoritarianism? How effective are ear plugs as a countermeasure? Parabolic mirrors? How can we divest from organizations employing these anti-populist, anti-democratic measures?

the key is the u.s. is a representative democracy, not a direct democracy (only in certain elections).

the strategy is to support representatives whose opinions you trust and speak persuasively to people to bring them on your side. To do this effectively, you must listen to them and understand their concerns.

there is no quick-fix. you must perform this work at a slow and steady pace your entire life, never feeling confident others can handle it (that their angry facebook memes will stop a demagogue).

Re: DC police used sonic cannon to direct crowd flow during Women's March

#72

Post by emodendroket »

rectang wrote: post #54
Sephr wrote: post #17

High power directed ultrasound can potentially cause brain damage from induced mechanical strain in brain tissue. I feel like parametric ultrasonic speakers should be more stringently regulated before every single police department starts using them as if they were regular loudspeakers. I support requiring something akin to an amateur radio license to operate high powered parametric ultrasonic speakers.

> brain damage Surely that's a feature, not a bug, when the police have to deal with civil rights protesters. Recall the dogs, batons, and water cannons of the south.

They used water cannons on people in Standing Rock in some seriously cold temperatures just last year.

Re: DC police used sonic cannon to direct crowd flow during Women's March

#73

Post by emodendroket »

chillingeffect wrote: post #71
omegaworks wrote: post #58

Hacker News, can we come up with clever ways to undermine this growing trend toward authoritarianism? How effective are ear plugs as a countermeasure? Parabolic mirrors? How can we divest from organizations employing these anti-populist, anti-democratic measures?

the key is the u.s. is a representative democracy, not a direct democracy (only in certain elections). the strategy is to support representatives whose opinions you trust and speak persuasively to people to bring them on your side. To do this effectively, you must listen to them and understand their concerns. there is no quick-fix. you must perform this work at a slow and steady pace your entire life, never feeling c…

When you're given a choice of two candidates and neither of them represent your interests, and this happens time after time, I think it's fair to question the efficacy of the tack you're proposing.

Re: DC police used sonic cannon to direct crowd flow during Women's March

#74

Post by MaysonL »

jstanley wrote: post #6
stevemk14ebr wrote: post #3

I'd like to know the protocol for the deployment of these sound cannons. If they first try to apply officers on the ground to direct crowds, and then deploy sonic cannons afterwards when the aforementioned fails, then i personally feel that's justifiable. However i'm not sure I agree with the use of such tech as a first line option, it screams dystopian to me personally.

If police are unable to control the crowd, at what point is that simply because the crowd is so large that the police should be unable to control them? If the DDR had this sort of technology, would the Berlin wall still be standing? And, if so, would that be a good thing?

The DDR was going down, once Hungary opened its borders. There was no wall between East bloc countries, and as many East Germans were leaving as could find cars and gas to get out with.

Re: DC police used sonic cannon to direct crowd flow during Women's March

#75

Post by [deleted] »

handelaar wrote: post #23
jstanley wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If police are unable to control the crowd, at what point is that simply because the crowd is so large that the police should be unable to control them? If the DDR had this sort of technology, would the Berlin wall still be standing? And, if so, would that be a good thing?

As someone who used to organise large demonstrations in London for CND [a UK anti-nuclear org] a long time ago -- there is no point that the crowd is ever so large that a combination of the organasition itself with the police where the crowd "should" be unable to control it. In fact when you're putting together a demo in London you meet the Met police and meeting that requirement is one of the things you discuss with…

[deleted]

Re: DC police used sonic cannon to direct crowd flow during Women's March

#76

Post by mrob »

matt_the_bass wrote: post #10

There are legitimate (IMHO) uses for these. For example, a crowd panics and people start getting trampled. An LRAD can be used to communicate directions quickly at long range to help stop the panic. The report sounds like the police were doing what they should be doing. Have the organizers of that March complained about police actions or disputed the report? If not, then I would tend to believe the report. If correct…

These are weapons designed to maim. And they are particularly insidious because permanent hearing damage and tinnitus are invisible. You can ruin hundreds of lives at once with no messy blood spills. Damaging hearing is a great way to punish "undesirable" people while pretending you're not evil. I can't think of any argument for their use that doesn't also permit use of biological and chemical weapons. It's 100% unethical.

Re: DC police used sonic cannon to direct crowd flow during Women's March

#77

Post by mav3r1ck »

handelaar wrote: post #23
jstanley wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If police are unable to control the crowd, at what point is that simply because the crowd is so large that the police should be unable to control them? If the DDR had this sort of technology, would the Berlin wall still be standing? And, if so, would that be a good thing?

As someone who used to organise large demonstrations in London for CND [a UK anti-nuclear org] a long time ago -- there is no point that the crowd is ever so large that a combination of the organasition itself with the police where the crowd "should" be unable to control it. In fact when you're putting together a demo in London you meet the Met police and meeting that requirement is one of the things you discuss with…

This sounds like an awesome story. Please do share if you already haven't somewhere!

Re: DC police used sonic cannon to direct crowd flow during Women's March

#78

Post by brador »

secret_island wrote: post #32
djsumdog wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support them not being allowed ever. But just like the totally ineffective body scanners at airports, too much money has been sunk in for officers not to use them. No one actually cares about the sunk cost fallacy.

Quite right. Israel's El Al simply profiles everyone that flies and by doing so they obviate the need to use stupid, expensive equipment that does nothing other than bottleneck airports and cause frustration. The Israelis are the best in the world at what they do regarding air security. The West has considered using the same techniques and they likely should. I'm not opposed to profiling if the person fits the profil…

Who decides the profiles?

Re: DC police used sonic cannon to direct crowd flow during Women's March

#79

Post by whamlastxmas »

omegaworks wrote: post #58

Hacker News, can we come up with clever ways to undermine this growing trend toward authoritarianism? How effective are ear plugs as a countermeasure? Parabolic mirrors? How can we divest from organizations employing these anti-populist, anti-democratic measures?

We need a better voting system than we do now. I strongly believe we'll see much better representation when we can vote outside the two party system without throwing away a vote.

Re: DC police used sonic cannon to direct crowd flow during Women's March

#80

Post by username223 »

alexeldeib wrote: post #34
secret_island wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite right. Israel's El Al simply profiles everyone that flies and by doing so they obviate the need to use stupid, expensive equipment that does nothing other than bottleneck airports and cause frustration. The Israelis are the best in the world at what they do regarding air security. The West has considered using the same techniques and they likely should. I'm not opposed to profiling if the person fits the profil…

I agree broadly that the Israeli model seems the one to follow. My understanding differs, however, in that it's not strictly profiling in the sense that carries heavy negative connotations in the US. I haven't traveled to Israel so can't comment, but I understand that in "profiling" the focus is on more objective metrics than an American might think when they hear the word -- e.g., physiological responses (sweating,…

> physiological responses (sweating, increased heartrate, nervousness), consistency under questioning, etc.

Is this what Canadian border guards are supposed to be doing? I hate dealing with them, and therefore minimize my border crossings. I just want to pour money into the Canadian economy as a tourist from time to time, and actual Canadian cops (RCMP) are much less aggressive than their US counterparts, but the border crossing is almost always unnecessarily miserable.

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