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California's hidden homeless: workers living in cars due to property prices

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Re: California's hidden homeless: workers living in cars due to property prices

#61
post #31

I've come to the sad realization that Holywood/Silicon Valley liberal ideology is a significant enabler of inequality and wealth stratification. They'd rather have people living out of cars and tents than being paid reasonable wages or having affordable housing. Can't wait until their latest amendment passes[0] in California. [0] https://ballotpedia.org/California_No_Taxes_After_Age_55_Ini...

>No taxes above the age of 55. Lol, is this a joke?

Regrettably not. Note also that ti's a constitutional amendment, meaning it won't be able to be overturned by the legislature in the (admittedly unlikely) event that it passes. This is a simple money grab by established interests, although it will be sold as protection for the most vulnerable - with the unspoken provise that those who don't own property or have significant taxable income don't matter. A previous initiative which limited growth in property taxes, prop. 13, did a lot to shape the development of housing in the state and arguably has contributed to the housing crisis, since it creates significant disincentives to sell if a property has gained significantly in value. I'm not a big fan of property taxes to start with, but prop 13 means that people living in otherwise identical properties on the same block can be paying wildly different rates of tax depending on when they purchased their home, which is rather inequitable. I'd be somewhat worse off if it were abolished but I don't think it's been good for California.

Re: California's hidden homeless: workers living in cars due to property prices

#62
This should come as no surprise. With a software engineer salary it's barely enough to support 2 people. Can't imagine what it must be for the lower income brackets... When rent is 33%+ of a six figure salary for a 1 bedroom built in the fifties and looking like it, you can start wondering how the heck did we get there.

Re: California's hidden homeless: workers living in cars due to property prices

#63

If we didn't dedicate so much land and building space to cars and parking, people wouldn't have to live in cars and parking lots.

And allow for more density in general.

Especially density that's cheap and high quality == manufactured...like cars.

Re: California's hidden homeless: workers living in cars due to property prices

#64

Sorry if this sounds rude, it's not meant to be, but as a foreigner, I really cannot fathom why what are basically homeless people would be called "middle class". How can you be "middle class" and poor at the same time ? What is the definition of "middle class" ?

Many people perceive class based on salary/occupation and dollar values rather than what those dollars actually buy in context. The Bay Area is considered rich, even if the median person’s standard of living is below national standards, because salaries are so high.

Re: California's hidden homeless: workers living in cars due to property prices

#65
post #2

Serious question not addressed in the article: Why don't they move out of California?

Most people have strong attachment to places. Also job portability isn't always very easy, depending on what field you are in. I could see lower wager workers finding it hard to get a job in areas where cost of living is cheap but can't afford living where there is work but it pays shit. Must be a real dilemma with probably very few winning scenarios.

Re: California's hidden homeless: workers living in cars due to property prices

#66
post #37

I've come to the sad realization that Holywood/Silicon Valley liberal ideology is a significant enabler of inequality and wealth stratification. They'd rather have people living out of cars and tents than being paid reasonable wages or having affordable housing. Can't wait until their latest amendment passes[0] in California. [0] https://ballotpedia.org/California_No_Taxes_After_Age_55_Ini...

What do you mean by "liberal"? For e.g. neither Hollywood/Silicon Valley are "economically leftist"---they would be considered "liberal" in Europe, where "liberal" refers to "economically liberal", i.e. policies similar to "laissez faire" (which seems about right for Hollywood/SV). On the other hand, they are also supportive of "progressive norms", such as "LGBTQ rights" or "multiculturalism", which are often bunched…

Another term for "economically liberal" is neoliberal. Of course, "economic liberals" run crying to "nanny state" when going gets tough, such as when housing bubble got burst. I am sure we wouldn't have these cost of housing problems now if bailouts never happened. Amazing how "laissez faire" works only in one direction for "economically liberal".

Re: California's hidden homeless: workers living in cars due to property prices

#67

How did the labor and housing markets get so dramatically out of sync?

Local communities decide what sort of housing they will contain, how much of it to permit, and in some cases the price it will go for, along with the income ranges for eligible buyers/renters. Their interests are maintenance of status-quo or lower levels of crowding and traffic, deterrence of gentrification in renter communities, and boosting home values in owner communities.

Tech companies decide what products to build, who to sell them to, how much to sell them for, and how many people to hire.

If the Palo Alto city council planned Facebook.com the way it plans housing adjacent to the Facebook campus, they might grow at more similar paces.

Re: California's hidden homeless: workers living in cars due to property prices

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many do, obviously. But from a societal perspective, why should they have to? California is doing well economically, particularly the bay area. In a time where the country seems short for good jobs, shouldn't we be pushing as hard as possible to let people move into and stay in areas that are successful?

Not to mention that presumably if all the teachers, chefs, and nurses are driven out of California their absence will be a problem for the remaining Californians.

Will it be a problem? Or will it cause a reevaluation of pay scales for those professions? Might it cause pay to actually rise to an appropriate level for those workers? I don't know, but it sounds like an intriguing idea.

I recently read an article linked on Hacker News about a woman who commutes 3 hours each way to work a government job in Los Angeles. She could get the same job in her home town, but it pays half as much, so she does the commute to send her kids to college. It sounds like the job is worth more than she's making at it, but the same job near her home doesn't pay enough to make it worth her while. If it did, likely LA would have to raise the wage for that position.

Re: California's hidden homeless: workers living in cars due to property prices

#69

How did the labor and housing markets get so dramatically out of sync?

It's complicated. Prop 13 is a major cause, by removing any downside to increased property values for existing homeowners. God, what a terrible law.

Also, those who would benefit most from saner housing prices are those who would potentially move in, but potential residents don't get to vote.

Re: California's hidden homeless: workers living in cars due to property prices

#70

Sorry if this sounds rude, it's not meant to be, but as a foreigner, I really cannot fathom why what are basically homeless people would be called "middle class". How can you be "middle class" and poor at the same time ? What is the definition of "middle class" ?

They aren't poor at all, they refuse to leave one of the most expensive places in the world because "I was here first" or "I love this place" etc.
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