Live data from Hacker News

Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

fortune.com

171–180 of 226 posts

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the market perspective, but there's a value perspective as well. Entire libraries have been written about and many, many careers have been based upon the notion of "the value of something." It's actually a very, very complex idea. The minuscule mass-energy of the electrons and photons oscillating in various wires and fiber optic cables to bring these words to you have virtually zero market value as individual…

>"Why are things worth what they're worth?" is the same order of complexity as "Why do things fall?" Your layman's dismissal of value is something like a medieval peasant dismissing the question of why an apple falls from a tree as an idiot's question. I don't think anything you just said is relevant to what I said here. All that I said is that there is a notion of value which is not simply "what the market will bear…

There are items with inherent value, like gold. It's value is inherent because of how we use it (electronics, jewelry), but that doesn't change the fact that there is real value in gold.

Context. There are contexts where even gold has greatly reduced value. If you're on a sinking ditched airplane in rough seas, are you really going to try and stash that 1kg bar of gold bullion on your person? In that context, it arguably has quite a bit of negative value. I'd account the "getting you dead" property as conferring negative value.

In the same context, liter of salt water is worthless. In a different context, it would be worth many times what the gold would be worth.

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#172
post #145
post #87

The iphone X is very overpriced when viewed as a utility object, because it doesn’t provide 4x the utility of a $250 phone. But it is very reasonable when viewed as a fashion accessory. A $1000 phone to go inside a $2000 purse is not crazy at all. People keep looking at apple as a tech company and struggling to understand them, but if you view them as a luxury/fashion company who happens to specialize in technology t…

It doesn't necessarily need to be a fashion accessory to justify that price. You're not just getting aesthetics for the money, you're getting performance, battery life, display quality, etc. I'm using my phone a lot on a daily basis, so it's worth paying a bit more to get the best available. There's nothing functionally different about a $2000 purse. Besides, comparing iPhones to purses is basically the same sort of…

A purse can last a lifetime, if not lost or stolen. An iPhone will be unusable within 5 years no matter what.

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#173
post #87

The iphone X is very overpriced when viewed as a utility object, because it doesn’t provide 4x the utility of a $250 phone. But it is very reasonable when viewed as a fashion accessory. A $1000 phone to go inside a $2000 purse is not crazy at all. People keep looking at apple as a tech company and struggling to understand them, but if you view them as a luxury/fashion company who happens to specialize in technology t…

It is not a fashion statement. When was the last time you saw a phone without a case, that makes it indistinguishable from the rest?

It is just an object of desire.

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Why are things worth what they're worth?" is the same order of complexity as "Why do things fall?" Your layman's dismissal of value is something like a medieval peasant dismissing the question of why an apple falls from a tree as an idiot's question. I don't think anything you just said is relevant to what I said here. All that I said is that there is a notion of value which is not simply "what the market will bear…

There are items with inherent value, like gold. It's value is inherent because of how we use it (electronics, jewelry), but that doesn't change the fact that there is real value in gold. Context. There are contexts where even gold has greatly reduced value. If you're on a sinking ditched airplane in rough seas, are you really going to try and stash that 1kg bar of gold bullion on your person? In that context, it argu…

1kg of gold is 1/10th the size of a coke can and is worth around $40k.

If you want to save something in a life threatening situation, that's a fairly reasonable choice.

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the aggregate, "the value perspective", is how many people value the product enough to pay Apple's asking price. If the value perspective isn't enough to sell the number of phones Apple can make, then Apple would lower the price.

Or increase ad spend and arrange for PR-managed celebtrity sponsorships as “social proof.” Or repackage most of the tech in a new version with some allegedly extra premium feature, like a useable battery life. Or release some other products and rely on a halo effect. The point being that perceptions of practical utility, Veblen value, and other price-defining factors are all malleable and brand-dependent, and essenti…

The market value is not "mythical" and it is "objective". Everything you stated - advertising,Veblen value, and other "malleable" attributes are things that increase its value in the eyes of the target market.

Just because you may not find a value in a pair of $200 Jordan's doesn't mean that it's not the value that the market has placed on them. How the company influenced that value is irrelevant. The fact that someone spent $200 on a pair of shoes when they weren't under duress to do so, by definition means they valued those Jordan's at $200.

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#176
post #21

I think market analysts continue to miss the mark on this story. What I keep hearing over and over are variations of "people are turned off by the $1,000 price tag." I think this is a complete misread. People don't pay $1k for an iPhone because it's the practical thing to do. If practicality is the #1 priority for phone shoppers, they will simply buy a 7 or 8. I don't think this comprises the top of the market, thoug…

My 17 year old niece recently upgraded, and she could choose any phone. She chose the 8 Plus, as she perceived the iPhone X as being smaller. She said she'd happily get a "X Plus"

my fiance says the same. Her main issue is the landscape difference; she plays a lot of games.

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#177
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't necessarily need to be a fashion accessory to justify that price. You're not just getting aesthetics for the money, you're getting performance, battery life, display quality, etc. I'm using my phone a lot on a daily basis, so it's worth paying a bit more to get the best available. There's nothing functionally different about a $2000 purse. Besides, comparing iPhones to purses is basically the same sort of…

A purse can last a lifetime, if not lost or stolen. An iPhone will be unusable within 5 years no matter what.

>An iPhone will be unusable within 5 years no matter what.

your comment makes a lot more sense if you substitute "50 years". This is what a 50 year old LV suitcase looks like:

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/1d/cf/2e/1dcf2e4b6dc46d851095f477b...

This is what a 2012 iPhone looks like:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_5

they're about equally useable today (2017/early 2018). After 50 years, though, the iPhone would be a joke. (unusable.) I think the iPhone 5 isn't even close to "unusable" after 5 years.

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the market perspective, but there's a value perspective as well. Entire libraries have been written about and many, many careers have been based upon the notion of "the value of something." It's actually a very, very complex idea. The minuscule mass-energy of the electrons and photons oscillating in various wires and fiber optic cables to bring these words to you have virtually zero market value as individual…

>"Why are things worth what they're worth?" is the same order of complexity as "Why do things fall?" Your layman's dismissal of value is something like a medieval peasant dismissing the question of why an apple falls from a tree as an idiot's question. I don't think anything you just said is relevant to what I said here. All that I said is that there is a notion of value which is not simply "what the market will bear…

There are items with inherent value, like gold. It's value is inherent because

Besides electronics, historically the only reasons gold has been valuable was that there was limited quantity and people could trade it for needed goods and services and that people could make jewelry from it. But if tomorrow a large gold deposit was found doubling the amount of supply or people stopped accepting gold in exchange for goods, it wouldn't be as valuable. The price of gold doesnt reflect its utilitarian value.

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are items with inherent value, like gold. It's value is inherent because of how we use it (electronics, jewelry), but that doesn't change the fact that there is real value in gold. Context. There are contexts where even gold has greatly reduced value. If you're on a sinking ditched airplane in rough seas, are you really going to try and stash that 1kg bar of gold bullion on your person? In that context, it argu…

1kg of gold is 1/10th the size of a coke can and is worth around $40k. If you want to save something in a life threatening situation, that's a fairly reasonable choice.

If you want to save something in a life threatening situation, that's a fairly reasonable choice.

I wasn't talking about a life threatening situation. I was talking about a "life threatened by not being able to float well enough to breathe" situation combined with a "life threatened by not getting out of a sinking thing fast enough" situation.

Also if you think it's a reasonable choice, and the next person thinks it's a crazy choice, that supports my point instead of contradicting it. (And yes, I planned that out!)

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A purse can last a lifetime, if not lost or stolen. An iPhone will be unusable within 5 years no matter what.

>An iPhone will be unusable within 5 years no matter what. your comment makes a lot more sense if you substitute "50 years". This is what a 50 year old LV suitcase looks like: https://i.pinimg.com/236x/1d/cf/2e/1dcf2e4b6dc46d851095f477b... This is what a 2012 iPhone looks like: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_5 they're about equally useable today (2017/early 2018). After 50 years, though, the iPhone would be a…

quite the pedantic answer. lets interpret "within 5 years" as Now pick an IPhone 4 and good luck with installing/updating anything in ios 7.
Post reply on HN