Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android • Hacker News Board

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#271

Post by cageface » Fri, Aug 13, 2010, 2:54 PM UTC

wmf wrote: post #104

cageface wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good question. It's got to cast a bit of a shadow over anything based on the VM. This seems like a catastrophically stupid and short-sighted move on Oracle's part. The reason Java is as big as it is today is that it's been an open playing field for all comers. Start tossing the odd hand grenade into the party and the room is going to clear out fast. The timing could hardly be worse too - Scala and Clojure seem to be…

I disagree. Java ME is already dead, so there's nothing left to kill. Server-side Java is all properly licensed, so I don't see a problem there.

Patent and licensing issues are so complex and the outcome of litigation so unpredictable that good faith and precedent are what count. This suit demonstrates that Oracle is perfectly willing to pursue offensive suits on Java IP and that's a very damaging precedent.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#272

Post by rue » Fri, Aug 13, 2010, 2:57 PM UTC

js4all wrote: post #165

As a side note, there is something cooking. In the last weeks, Oracle has been replacing Sun's copyright messages with their own all over in Java. This even effected Eclipses startup code.

This is probably because Sun no longer exists.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#273

Post by shasta » Fri, Aug 13, 2010, 3:02 PM UTC

Confusion wrote: post #186

shasta wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, here's claim 1: In a computer system, a method for increasing the execution speed of virtual machine instructions, the method comprising: - inputting virtual machine instructions for a function; - compiling a portion of the function into at least one native machine instruction so that the function includes both virtual and native machine instruction; and - overwriting a selected virtual machine instruction of t…

Again, as tptacek already said: careful. The summary isn't the actual claim either. The devil is in the details.

The above is the actual first claim from the patent. Of course it's subject to interpretation in context, but that is the text of the first claim.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#274

Post by joeyh » Fri, Aug 13, 2010, 3:07 PM UTC

dstein wrote: post #264

Oracle is sending a very clear message every programmer, young and old. "If you use Java to make something valuable, we're gonna sue the crap out of you". This will have long term consequences for Oracle.

"Java: Write once, run anywhere, be sued by Oracle"

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#275

Post by kenjackson » Fri, Aug 13, 2010, 3:20 PM UTC

seldo wrote: post #6

Excuse the really really obvious question, but how can you sue somebody for intellectual property infringement on open-source software? Didn't you already give anybody the license to do what they wanted with it? If they've violated the license terms in some way, isn't that different from IP infringement?

Just because its open source doesn't mean that IP terms still can't be brought against you. Here's a simple example. Lets say that someone contributes someone else's patented algorithm into gcc. Now you ship gcc, not knowing about the patent infringement. All of a sudden you have a patent lawsuit on your hands.

This is probably the biggest reason why companies, like Microsoft, even when they do open source, don't accept contributions. Just because someone contributes specific code, doesn't mean they have the legal right to do so.

Sun showed that Java could be a timebomb. And in the hands of Larry Ellison, I think Google is just the first victim. Oracle will be going through uses of Java with a fine-tooth comb. Get your duck in order now.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#276

Post by pohl » Fri, Aug 13, 2010, 3:25 PM UTC

jws wrote: post #95

rjurney wrote: post #71

Oracle CEO Larry Ellison are good friends, best man at your wedding kind of friends. Ellison was once on Apple's board of directors after Jobs returned to Apple. Oracle suing Google over Java patent infringements in Android sure plays well for Apple... Apple vs (Google vs (Facebook && Oracle))

… and if you rearrange the letters of "spicy acorn" it even spells "conspiracy"!.

That's the beauty of quid pro quo: it's plausibly deniable and you can poke fun at those who suspect it.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#277

Post by bruceboughton » Fri, Aug 13, 2010, 3:29 PM UTC

loup-vaillant wrote: post #244

bruceboughton wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone accepts that the object systems in Java and .NET are fully object-oriented.

Considering that no definition of "object-oriented" is accepted by everyone, I'm not sure your criticism is valid. My suggestion: drop the term "object-oriented" altogether, and refer to more specific features.

Which brings me back round to my initial assertion:

>> You can like lambdas without wanting to go fully functional

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#278

Post by shadowfox » Fri, Aug 13, 2010, 3:29 PM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #208

cscotta wrote: post #7

The biggest issue I see with Oracle's lawsuit is not with Android itself, but the future of Java as an open platform. The claims are pretty serious, and Oracle is going straight for the jugular. It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out, but I've got to hope that Google will come out of this in good shape for the sake of Java. It's unfortunate that Oracle is interpreting Google's implementation of Dalvik and a Ja…

> it raises some fairly serious questions around Java's future development as a platform vis a vis the uncertainty recently resolved between Microsoft and the Mono project Microsoft's "Community Promise" does not cover the whole .NET stack - it covers only the ECMA standardized parts. It has "It's a trap" written all over it. I would also think twice before relying on promises from a convicted monopoly abuser.

Now I am not advocating that MS should be given a free hand. But what does being a convicted monopoly abuser have to do with patent traps?

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#279

Post by tocomment » Fri, Aug 13, 2010, 3:32 PM UTC

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #230

tocomment wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting. I wonder if Google could buy IBM and then have them drop the lawsuit?

There's no reason this comment should be voted down.

There's no reason your comment should be voted down either. I upvoted it at least.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#280

Post by cookiecaper » Fri, Aug 13, 2010, 3:38 PM UTC

shadowfox wrote: post #278

rbanffy wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it raises some fairly serious questions around Java's future development as a platform vis a vis the uncertainty recently resolved between Microsoft and the Mono project Microsoft's "Community Promise" does not cover the whole .NET stack - it covers only the ECMA standardized parts. It has "It's a trap" written all over it. I would also think twice before relying on promises from a convicted monopoly abuser.

Now I am not advocating that MS should be given a free hand. But what does being a convicted monopoly abuser have to do with patent traps?

I think he stated that to indicate that we shouldn't just take Microsoft at its word that it won't attempt to litigate Mono et al. They'll find a loophole in the "Community Promise" (possibly the loophole described above) and try to hurt their enemies.