Live data from Hacker News

Ex-FB exec: The dopamine-driven feedback loops are destroying how society works

youtube.com

71–80 of 92 posts

Re: Ex-FB exec: The dopamine-driven feedback loops are destroying how society works

#71
post #51
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My "symptoms" include pretty serious social anxiety and an inability to think during conversations, inability to focus on non-interesting work, and just a general feeling of being dumber. Well, I guess I'm not alone. I feel like I've struggled with that for many years.

Sounds kind of like ADD (or ADHD-PI, as it's now called)... do you find that coffee helps at all?

FWIW - I drink nearly an entire pot of coffee every day. No creamer or sugar or anything, just black. It's indispensable IMO.

Re: Ex-FB exec: The dopamine-driven feedback loops are destroying how society works

#72

Tristram Harris [1][2] is worth listening to on these points, I'm sure many on HN are already aware. Without rambling too much, I'm one of those over-sensitive, slightly aspie types that reads SSC and gets carried away with over-analysing the zeitgeist. Uncharitably, you might say 'smart but weak-minded'. The longer I spend in front of social media, the more and more in tatters I feel. I spent a week entirely disconn…

What your life is missing is meaning. Meaning is action. If a word means anything at all it is because it is in reference to some kind of actual experience. Blogs, books, and media of all kind are basically meaningless. Vanity of vanities and all that jazz. You need to experience life. You need to find meaning through action. You need to become a poet by becoming the poem. Help your neighbor with his hobbies. Cook di…

Wow, that was really spot on, and good to read.

Thank you for writing that.

Re: Ex-FB exec: The dopamine-driven feedback loops are destroying how society works

#73
post #63

Tristram Harris [1][2] is worth listening to on these points, I'm sure many on HN are already aware. Without rambling too much, I'm one of those over-sensitive, slightly aspie types that reads SSC and gets carried away with over-analysing the zeitgeist. Uncharitably, you might say 'smart but weak-minded'. The longer I spend in front of social media, the more and more in tatters I feel. I spent a week entirely disconn…

My issue with replacing something like reddit is... what exactly to replace it with? Reddit is entertaining and free. Every time I quit, I end up still seeking out entertainment, but it's no longer free. Movies, gambling, restaurants, bars. TV is free but even less entertaining, imo. Books feel like mental masturbation and very few change my worldviews at this point. My overall conclusion has been that reddit is not…

> Books feel like mental masturbation and very few change my worldviews at this point.

This reads like a line out of the fire chief's speech to Montague. There are certainly books out there that can change your worldview and I'd say Reddit is much closer to "mental masturbation," being a literal dopamine release skinner box for your brain to digest meaningless but satisfying information and socialization tidbits.

Re: Ex-FB exec: The dopamine-driven feedback loops are destroying how society works

#74
post #6

Seems like an old man is having trouble with change. I'm sure that similar things have been said about cars, telephones, televisions, and computers in general.

Snarky dismissals are not welcome here, so please don't post any more of them. Ditto for personal attacks.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Edit: it looks like you've been posting a lot of unsubstantive comments to Hacker News. We eventually ban such accounts. If you have a substantive point to make, please make it thoughtfully; if you don't, please don't comment until you do.

Re: Ex-FB exec: The dopamine-driven feedback loops are destroying how society works

#75
post #63

Tristram Harris [1][2] is worth listening to on these points, I'm sure many on HN are already aware. Without rambling too much, I'm one of those over-sensitive, slightly aspie types that reads SSC and gets carried away with over-analysing the zeitgeist. Uncharitably, you might say 'smart but weak-minded'. The longer I spend in front of social media, the more and more in tatters I feel. I spent a week entirely disconn…

My issue with replacing something like reddit is... what exactly to replace it with? Reddit is entertaining and free. Every time I quit, I end up still seeking out entertainment, but it's no longer free. Movies, gambling, restaurants, bars. TV is free but even less entertaining, imo. Books feel like mental masturbation and very few change my worldviews at this point. My overall conclusion has been that reddit is not…

I'm generally not too negative on social media or online interaction - though a balance of personal contemplation time feels healthy in general to have - but I'm curious about what you mean about books.

Well-researched non-fiction seems far less masturbatory than reading random folks opining on a topic online, and fiction is a completely different category than most online discussion - it's not everybody's cup of tea, but if you're into movies, it's not very different from that.

Re: Ex-FB exec: The dopamine-driven feedback loops are destroying how society works

#76
post #30
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cars are great for transportation and have enabled humankind to travel further and more often then ever before, but they are also 2000+ lb. death traps and combined with alcohol they are an absolute threat to everyone's safety. The time savings provided by cars, once you factor in time spent to pay for them, pump gas, perform (or wait on) maintenance, plus actual travel time, is dubious for anyone earning average i…

The time savings provided by cars, once you factor in time spent to pay for them, pump gas, perform (or wait on) maintenance, plus actual travel time, is dubious I call shenanigans on this. How much time do you spend pumping gas? I doubt I spend more than 5 minutes a week, maybe even every two weeks. As for travel time, just other day I was thinking, my 30-minute journey would be a day's walk probably, starting and f…

Cost of gas. Cost of maintenance. Cost of insurance. Cost of replacement car from time to time. Cost of parking, both at home (garage is part of the cost of your house, if you own/mortgage) and at work. Direct time lost to gas pumping, maintenance, replacing a tire, detours taken to reach gas or maintenance places, whatever. Time of actual commute. Find typical values for normal working people for these, find typical commute distances and times, find average hourly wage. Figure out how much of an average person's working day is spent paying for car-related expenses, how much non-driving time goes toward one's car averaged per day, and add those to actual commute time. Compare with time to travel average commute distance by bicycle.

That's without considering the effects of omnipresent automobiles on city layouts and how they force everything to spread out (enormous parking lots much larger than the destination they're for, incredibly wide roads, massive "green spaces" to provide buffers between ugly, noisy, smelly, dangerous highways and areas for humans, big front yards for similar reasons, and so on)

[EDIT] to save you some time, the average spent on car-related stuff in the US per year is about $9,000. Average hourly wage, 26.55 or so. Call it 50 working weeks a year, 5 days a week. Looking at about 1.35 hrs per day paying for car crap, on average. Plus actual commute time and other time lost to cars for various reasons. And I doubt they included cost of garage on house or whatever in those numbers.

Re: Ex-FB exec: The dopamine-driven feedback loops are destroying how society works

#77
post #55

Tristram Harris [1][2] is worth listening to on these points, I'm sure many on HN are already aware. Without rambling too much, I'm one of those over-sensitive, slightly aspie types that reads SSC and gets carried away with over-analysing the zeitgeist. Uncharitably, you might say 'smart but weak-minded'. The longer I spend in front of social media, the more and more in tatters I feel. I spent a week entirely disconn…

Despite smoking 25 a day, I have found quitting Reddit much, much harder I started using BBS systems in 1985 and reddit in 2006. Left reddit several times, deleting my account(s) each time. Finally left it for good about a year and a half ago and am so glad it's gone. I've replaced it with some similar things like HN but reddit is such a particularly addictive and destructive site it's worth singling out for avoidanc…

You mention that you replaced Reddit with some similar things like HN. If you don't mind me asking, what are they? I've failed to find content with the quality of discussion that can be found here.

Re: Ex-FB exec: The dopamine-driven feedback loops are destroying how society works

#78

He stated what I have felt for years, in words much better than I could. If you struggle to disconnect from social media because you feel like you’ll miss out on friends, remember this: If social media is the only thing connecting you to a friend, they aren’t that good of a friend anyway. Your true friends will not disappear if you delete Facebook.

What's true for you is not necessarily true for others. Are you still in touch with the people you knew in kindergarten? How many years ago was that? Consider that some people might have two or three times that many adult years of changing cities, changing jobs, changing life circumstances, each change resulting in more people with whom staying in touch is not automatic as it is with current classmates or coworkers. Some of them might have less free time because of family and other obligations. Some of them might have disabilities. Some might be more introverted than you are, which does not mean that they need human contact less but that it might take more effort to sustain it. Many people who are not exactly the same as you might find great value in having a lightweight way to maintain those tenuous contacts. Deriding them as not "true friends" or assuming that only "true friends" matter is very egocentric and privileged.

Re: Ex-FB exec: The dopamine-driven feedback loops are destroying how society works

#79

Tristram Harris [1][2] is worth listening to on these points, I'm sure many on HN are already aware. Without rambling too much, I'm one of those over-sensitive, slightly aspie types that reads SSC and gets carried away with over-analysing the zeitgeist. Uncharitably, you might say 'smart but weak-minded'. The longer I spend in front of social media, the more and more in tatters I feel. I spent a week entirely disconn…

I can relate with the fact that taking a longer break from connectivity is very healthy. I found that as I sat on a bus my first instinct was to call a friend. That is not a problem per se, but this I did for every ride. With enough friends I was be able to keep that up all the time. The same pattern was present in everything I did, sitting home alone was not an option.

In the end I lost my phone and felt that I shouldn't get a new one, at the same time my computer was at a friends place. All of a sudden my appartment was without mobile and computer connectivity (not a even a clock!). All of a sudden I could here myself again and I felt stronger and more filled with energy than in a long time.

Later on I have seen talks on precisely the same thing where they talk about how we end up skipping those small breaks we need to take during the day.

It was just a couple of days ago I heard about people who build dark rooms in their home where they can retract and replenish. Munks being the extremes.

I think it's great to find the things you can't handle, IRC, Reddit or Facebook, it's all the same if it steals those small breaks from your schedule. A compact schedule without those will eventually make you break.

Oddly enough I find that Hacker News is totally fine since it's easy to surf in on the most upvoted , read through the headlines, read comments for the interesting parts and be done with it. In the end that's basically the only site I read now a day since my life is busy enough with family and work.

I too have problems with controlling how much I do stuff, obviously. But taking note that it is actually an issue and doing it in controlled doses are really empowering. Choose platforms wisely :) Meditation helps.

Also, quitting IRC was about the hardest thing I've done (but I got my life back), but taking away part by part, channel by channel, i.e. stop gaming since that was why I used chats, made it so much easier to just walk away. Did the same with facebook recently and it was awesome.

Re: Ex-FB exec: The dopamine-driven feedback loops are destroying how society works

#80
post #76
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The time savings provided by cars, once you factor in time spent to pay for them, pump gas, perform (or wait on) maintenance, plus actual travel time, is dubious I call shenanigans on this. How much time do you spend pumping gas? I doubt I spend more than 5 minutes a week, maybe even every two weeks. As for travel time, just other day I was thinking, my 30-minute journey would be a day's walk probably, starting and f…

Cost of gas. Cost of maintenance. Cost of insurance. Cost of replacement car from time to time. Cost of parking, both at home (garage is part of the cost of your house, if you own/mortgage) and at work. Direct time lost to gas pumping, maintenance, replacing a tire, detours taken to reach gas or maintenance places, whatever. Time of actual commute. Find typical values for normal working people for these, find typical…

Compare with time to travel average commute distance by bicycle.

But that's not a fair comparison, because bicycle commuters have completely externalized the cost of the infrastructure they rely on. You have to compare commuting by car against commuting by bike with no roads. That's why I compared it to travelling on foot across country in my comment.

Post reply on HN