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Ex-FB exec: The dopamine-driven feedback loops are destroying how society works

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Re: Ex-FB exec: The dopamine-driven feedback loops are destroying how society works

#51

Post by md224 »

tetraca wrote: post #47
Mouse47 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on how you felt after you took your week off? In particular I'm interested in differences in sleep requirements & quality, difficulty handling eye contact (the 'slightly aspie' stuff), and general cognition. "In tatters": can I get a description of that also? Only reason I ask is because I've had a similar experience...twice. Once when moving into an apartment (no power, close proximity to roommates…

> My "symptoms" include pretty serious social anxiety and an inability to think during conversations, inability to focus on non-interesting work, and just a general feeling of being dumber. Well, I guess I'm not alone. I feel like I've struggled with that for many years.

Sounds kind of like ADD (or ADHD-PI, as it's now called)... do you find that coffee helps at all?

Re: Ex-FB exec: The dopamine-driven feedback loops are destroying how society works

#52

Post by ben_jones »

md224 wrote: post #49

Just want to make a couple points: - I think everyone understands this, but it bears repeating: dopamine isn't the problem here, as it will be involved in any rewarding behavior. The real claim being made is that we have created technologies that give us too much and/or the wrong kind of pleasure. - We should consider that "junk food" pleasure (the internet, TV, drugs, actual junk food, etc.) can be useful as a copin…

The problem is when necessary human coping mechanisms combine with capitalism.

That's when you get children's advertising for junkfood. Facebook pushing controversial shock stories to stir up users. And the War on Drugs leading to environments like the Opioid crisis.

I wonder if this is even avoidable - exercise for example is a huge industry and whether you're paying for a gym membership, exercise classes, or a new bike, you're paying...

Re: Ex-FB exec: The dopamine-driven feedback loops are destroying how society works

#53

Post by watwut »

eyeareque wrote: post #31

He stated what I have felt for years, in words much better than I could. If you struggle to disconnect from social media because you feel like you’ll miss out on friends, remember this: If social media is the only thing connecting you to a friend, they aren’t that good of a friend anyway. Your true friends will not disappear if you delete Facebook.

Even people without true friends need acquitances and social contact. The consequence for many is not knowing about social activities at all and thus not being able to participate at all because they tend to get organized over facebook. Moreover, there is such a thing as being special snowflake that refuses to use same practical tool as everyone and demand that others do out of way especially for him.

Lastly, not everyone has super rich social life that would make it easy to make and keep friends. Many people work a lot of hours in companies that change every 2 year, limiting opportunities for friends time. Others have children they already feel they spend too little time with. The loose connection when you react to each others posts is much better then comelet cut off.

Re: Ex-FB exec: The dopamine-driven feedback loops are destroying how society works

#55

Post by 300bps »

rwnspace wrote: post #27

Tristram Harris [1][2] is worth listening to on these points, I'm sure many on HN are already aware. Without rambling too much, I'm one of those over-sensitive, slightly aspie types that reads SSC and gets carried away with over-analysing the zeitgeist. Uncharitably, you might say 'smart but weak-minded'. The longer I spend in front of social media, the more and more in tatters I feel. I spent a week entirely disconn…

Despite smoking 25 a day, I have found quitting Reddit much, much harder

I started using BBS systems in 1985 and reddit in 2006. Left reddit several times, deleting my account(s) each time. Finally left it for good about a year and a half ago and am so glad it's gone. I've replaced it with some similar things like HN but reddit is such a particularly addictive and destructive site it's worth singling out for avoidance.

Re: Ex-FB exec: The dopamine-driven feedback loops are destroying how society works

#56

Post by luckydata »

peg_leg wrote: post #6

Seems like an old man is having trouble with change. I'm sure that similar things have been said about cars, telephones, televisions, and computers in general.

An old man that is having trouble with the changes HE helped create. That's an important detail.

Re: Ex-FB exec: The dopamine-driven feedback loops are destroying how society works

#57

Post by avtar »

Mouse47 wrote: post #44
rwnspace wrote: post #27

Tristram Harris [1][2] is worth listening to on these points, I'm sure many on HN are already aware. Without rambling too much, I'm one of those over-sensitive, slightly aspie types that reads SSC and gets carried away with over-analysing the zeitgeist. Uncharitably, you might say 'smart but weak-minded'. The longer I spend in front of social media, the more and more in tatters I feel. I spent a week entirely disconn…

Can you elaborate on how you felt after you took your week off? In particular I'm interested in differences in sleep requirements & quality, difficulty handling eye contact (the 'slightly aspie' stuff), and general cognition. "In tatters": can I get a description of that also? Only reason I ask is because I've had a similar experience...twice. Once when moving into an apartment (no power, close proximity to roommates…

> My "symptoms" include pretty serious social anxiety and an inability to think during conversations, inability to focus on non-interesting work, and just a general feeling of being dumber.

That hit really close to home. I've attributed my symptoms to lack of exercise and perhaps not reading enough long-form but this all conjecture at this point.

Re: Ex-FB exec: The dopamine-driven feedback loops are destroying how society works

#58

Post by koenigdavidmj »

rwnspace wrote: post #27

Tristram Harris [1][2] is worth listening to on these points, I'm sure many on HN are already aware. Without rambling too much, I'm one of those over-sensitive, slightly aspie types that reads SSC and gets carried away with over-analysing the zeitgeist. Uncharitably, you might say 'smart but weak-minded'. The longer I spend in front of social media, the more and more in tatters I feel. I spent a week entirely disconn…

Can you expand the SSC initialism? Google and Wikipedia don't seem to be very helpful.

Re: Ex-FB exec: The dopamine-driven feedback loops are destroying how society works

#59

Post by folksinger »

rwnspace wrote: post #27

Tristram Harris [1][2] is worth listening to on these points, I'm sure many on HN are already aware. Without rambling too much, I'm one of those over-sensitive, slightly aspie types that reads SSC and gets carried away with over-analysing the zeitgeist. Uncharitably, you might say 'smart but weak-minded'. The longer I spend in front of social media, the more and more in tatters I feel. I spent a week entirely disconn…

What your life is missing is meaning. Meaning is action. If a word means anything at all it is because it is in reference to some kind of actual experience.

Blogs, books, and media of all kind are basically meaningless. Vanity of vanities and all that jazz.

You need to experience life. You need to find meaning through action. You need to become a poet by becoming the poem.

Help your neighbor with his hobbies. Cook dinner for your family. Sing a song for a friend. Do something, anything, for someone else.

Realize the inaction and the meaningless nature of sitting in one place and searching for answers on screen or in print.

If you must read, read all text as a poem, or at least read poetry itself!

The darkness that you see is just a fiction. How could it be anything else? The magic spells are just words on a page. Belief is what makes them seem real.

Go outside. Go for a walk. There is no darkness. It is boring and peaceful and that should put your mind to rest.

Re: Ex-FB exec: The dopamine-driven feedback loops are destroying how society works

#60

Post by Tannic »

rublev wrote: post #33
cortesoft wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we should ignore what he says about Facebook?

No but you should take it with a grain of salt when he talks about "getting a seat at the table" and the ideas he has.

Exactly, leveraging his ability to damage fb into more money is certainly more consistent with his past activities than the idea that he now has an angelic conscience and cares about the world’s minds.
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