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Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

fortune.com

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Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#111

Post by JAFTEM »

namelost wrote: post #78
dkrich wrote: post #21

I think market analysts continue to miss the mark on this story. What I keep hearing over and over are variations of "people are turned off by the $1,000 price tag." I think this is a complete misread. People don't pay $1k for an iPhone because it's the practical thing to do. If practicality is the #1 priority for phone shoppers, they will simply buy a 7 or 8. I don't think this comprises the top of the market, thoug…

I agree. The problem with the X is that every new feature comes with a downside. It has a edge-to-edge screen but the notch is really ugly in landscape mode. It has Face ID but no Touch ID. It has wireless charging at the cost of a fragile glass back. It is a phone beset by compromises, the only thing it does reliably is broadcast that you are rich enough to buy a $1000 phone.

>It is a phone beset by compromises, the only thing it does reliably is broadcast that you are rich enough to buy a $1000 phone.

I think most of us with engineering backgrounds have a very hard time accepting that social capital is a valid reason to buy a device. It may just not be valid for me personally.

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#113

Post by olegkikin »

snuxoll wrote: post #63
olegkikin wrote: post #8

What do people buy $1000 smartphones for? For gaming I can get a pretty good gaming PC for that amount, or Xbox One X with a VR headset. I've never seen anybody do anything really cool with their phone - everyone browses the internet, checks the email, does chats/videochats, maps, take photos, and some silly mobile gaming. I do that all on my sub $200 phone.

Why does anybody buy an $800 graphics card when it will be obsolete in under two years? Because they plan on dealing with it being outpaced by newer hardware but not by enough to care about upgrading for a generation or two in most cases. This is why I’m still rocking my iPhone 7+, I don’t know if I’ll upgrade to the 9 when it comes out at this point because the phone still runs great - just like I plan on skipping V…

An $800 graphics card has an immediate use case: high FPS for games at high resolutions and high settings. Which is very important in competitive gaming, for instance.

I don't see such a use case for a $1000 smartphone. What important task does it solve that a $300-400 phone doesn't? A slightly better camera, slightly smoother scrolling, slightly faster web page rendering. None of that impresses me in the slightest, these improvements are marginal.

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#114

Post by chewz »

ShabbosGoy wrote: post #42
chewz wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree on hardware quality. Security to me seems like a sales pitch - Apple is just as sensitive information greedy as Google. And I deal in this area with Google as well as I do with Apple. But the inferior software quality is terrible drag for Apple. Photos - their syncing with iCloud is out of control. There are bugs that haven’t been eliminated for years. I gave up when after deleting 50 GB of RAW photos Apple r…

> Security to me seems like a sales pitch - Apple is just as sensitive information greedy as Google. And I deal in this area with Google as well as I do with Apple. I was scratching my head when I read this part of your comment. It makes me wonder if you ever owned or used an iPhone. iOS is end-to-end encrypted, and Apple doesn’t store any data on their servers, save for iCloud. And you don’t need to use iCloud to ha…

Have you ever observed amount of calls home from the iPhone?

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#115

Post by nugi »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #38
thisisit wrote: post #33

I think Apple might have missed the mark by not adding some kind of incentive for the wireless operators to continue offering subsidized phones. Wireless operators helped create the market when the $500+ iPhone was considered costly: http://fortune.com/2017/01/11/death-of-the-199-iphone-wirele... Additionally, phone market is reaching maturity slowly. First few generations had real changes in terms of hardware and ca…

> Additionally, phone market is reaching maturity slowly. First few generations had real changes in terms of hardware and capability. Sure, there are new capabilities but none of them are in the category of "Must Have". I've been saying this for years. I'm starting to see family and friends holding onto their phones for two, sometimes three years now. The prime movers to upgrade are slowly disappearing like you said.

Yup. I have been elegibe for an upgrade for 3 years, yet no current phone matches the featureset I have currently.

- Removable battery (huge deal, i carry 2 spares, often away from chargers for days)

- headphone jack (bt quality sucks, a lot, also battery and security issues keeping it on)

- Physical function buttons

- Waterproof/resistant, semi rugged. (Can I use it ouside in weather? Useless if not.)

- Decent camera, and audio.

- Gets regular security updates.

- Removable mass storage

- Makes and recieves phone calls without excessive dropouts.

- Internet connectivity with email and very basic browser.

Most modern phones dont even check half the boxes. They all seem to be made for people who never leave their car or office.

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#116

Post by chewz »

yladiz wrote: post #24
Yetanfou wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure you can. You'll need to uninstall Google Play Services as well but it is definitely possible to run Android without the Google-specific bits. It's is the first thing I do when setting up a new Android-device.

Out of curiosity, how difficult is this to do? Would the average user be able to do this easily?

This looks promosing - "New company called eelo will give you de-Google-ized Android so that you can keep your privacy"

https://www.phonearena.com/news/New-company-called-eelo-will...

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#117

Post by olegkikin »

Jonnax wrote: post #22
olegkikin wrote: post #8

What do people buy $1000 smartphones for? For gaming I can get a pretty good gaming PC for that amount, or Xbox One X with a VR headset. I've never seen anybody do anything really cool with their phone - everyone browses the internet, checks the email, does chats/videochats, maps, take photos, and some silly mobile gaming. I do that all on my sub $200 phone.

Because it's a nice device? Fast, sleek, good camera, stylish etc Why do people buy nice cars instead of the cheapest, most economical models?

I understand it's "fast", but what do you use that speed for to justify spending so much more money? I understand if you're so wealthy, you're willing to pay $800 more to open Facebook a second faster than me, but I don't get why an average person would do something like that.

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#118

Post by TimTheTinker »

1123581321 wrote: post #110
TimTheTinker wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t mean from Apple or an authorized reseller. Check Swappa - that’s where I got the above price.

Ah, ok! Yes, I’ve bought five iPhones on Swappa and Gazelle. I don’t think a used or third party refurb is an apples-to-apples comparison with a new X, though I prefer the SE. I’m hoping the SE 2 in the spring will have iPhone 8 internals.

I agree. I mention secondary SE prices to show that frugal & discerning Apple customers will go much further down than the iPhone 7.

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#119

Post by scarface74 »

Joeri wrote: post #87

The iphone X is very overpriced when viewed as a utility object, because it doesn’t provide 4x the utility of a $250 phone. But it is very reasonable when viewed as a fashion accessory. A $1000 phone to go inside a $2000 purse is not crazy at all. People keep looking at apple as a tech company and struggling to understand them, but if you view them as a luxury/fashion company who happens to specialize in technology t…

Sustain the volume at what level? All indications are that Apple makes less profit on the iPhone X than the other phones. Apple would be quite happy if someone bought any iPhone that they sell from the 6s to the 8s Plus 256GB. I'm purposefully excluding the SE. I think that probably has a lower profit margin.

And how is it overpriced? There is no such thing as an overpriced item in a free market as long as the quantity that Apple can make in a given time period matches the quantity people are willing to buy.

Re: Apple iPhone X Demand Limited, Wall Street Analysts Say

#120

Post by valuearb »

aphextron wrote: post #71
valuearb wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get a new iPhone every 2-3 years. This year I spent $10 a month extra to get the best possible screen and camera on a device I use hours every day. Not because it’s a status symbol. And very happy with my purchase.

>This year I spent $10 a month extra to get the best possible screen and camera on a device I use hours every day. Not because it’s a status symbol. And very happy with my purchase. And this is how they get people. You didn't spend an extra $10/month, you spent an extra $400 compared to getting the 8. I don't blame you, I think it's worth it, but that's a terrible way to think about prices.

Edited for more accurate depreciation estimates.

No, it's the absolutely correct way to think about buying things. I didn't spend $1,000 to get a great phone to use this month, then throw it away next month. In business, you buy equipment, you typically account for it's cost over it's useful life, i.e. amortizing and depreciation. In your personal life, it's no different, you need the right framework to correctly evaluate these decisions.

And secondly, I didn't pay $400 extra over an iPhone 8. I'll own this phone at least two years. Historically an iPhone is worth roughly 30-50% (edit) of purchase price in two years. So my two years cost of owning an iPhone X is going to be (roughly) $300-500, and an iPhone 8 roughly $200-325, only a little more than a $200 average difference. A cheap Android phone only costs $200 but might only be worth $50 in two years, so it's only about $450 cheaper than my iPhone X.

Note that I'm ignoring service costs, because they should be the same no matter what phone I choose.

While this is the economically accurate way to view your actual costs, it can be used in a bad way to think is if you don't quantify your economic benefits. If there aren't any economic benefits, admit you are paying for the badge/prestige. And ask yourself if that's worth it.

In the case of the iPhone X, it's the fastest phone with the best screen, and best camera. Am I going to get $10 a month or so of benefits from them? I think so. Would it be worth $40 a month more? Probably not.

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