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Cities with Uber Have Lower Rates of Ambulance Usage

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Re: Cities with Uber Have Lower Rates of Ambulance Usage

#171

Post by kasey_junk »

briandear wrote: post #155
kelnos wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is something where individual US states need to blaze a trail. California passed a (light-on-details) single-payer healthcare bill through the state Senate, though unfortunately the matter has been tabled for now by the Assembly, and funding it would require creative use of Medicare dollars that a) would require federal approval, and b) may not even exist much longer if the GOP gets its way. I agree that…

> [Medicare dollars] may not even exist much longer if the GOP gets its way. Has the GOP actually suggested eliminating Medicare? That doesn’t seem to be accurate at all.

Not eliminating but Paul Ryan was fairly specific on the radio recently that they plan to start cutting back on funding it.

https://khow.iheart.com/featured/ross-kaminsky/content/2017-...

Re: Cities with Uber Have Lower Rates of Ambulance Usage

#172

Post by pornel »

dantheman wrote: post #153
blhack wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is pretty much nothing that infuriates me more than the health insurance system. Here is just one example (other than your ambulance example, which is like some trolley-car problem come real): We use "insurance" for routine medical examinations which are supposedly to be done regardless of health. We use "insurance" for YEARLY checkups. The absurdity of this is on par with insuring yourself against getting hung…

The health insurance system in the US is about as far away as you can get from capitalism. It's heavily regulated, a cartel, the prices are not transparent, and there is no competition (existing hospitals have to approve new hospitals, etc).

US has a market for regulation: lobbying is legal and elections are funded by donors. So I'd say problems caused by the regulation are pure capitalism: it's just a new, more cost-efficient way of beating the competition.

Re: Cities with Uber Have Lower Rates of Ambulance Usage

#173

Post by sitepodmatt »

chrisseaton wrote: post #165
sitepodmatt wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3.4k and 5k. I would expect the keys to ambulance after the ride for that price. How can that cost be justified, did you get any treatment in the ambulance other than oxygen and maybe some morphine?

It's not just a ride in a vehicle is it? Ambulances carry paramedics and sometimes doctors, tens of thousands of dollars worth of drugs and equipment. Even if you don't use all of that, they can't do anything else during the time that they're on your call, they need to be heavily insured, and they also need to stand by all day waiting for calls.

The numbers still seem extremely high, even if an ambulance only does 3 trips a day on a bad day, that's over 10k USD. A private ambulance ride in Thailand (Im not talking rescue org ambualances) for example is $80-$120. Now I understand the service standard might not be as high, and wages are lower, and so on, but is it really 40x as expensive in USA to cover costs?

Actually a better example, might be HKG, where service probably exceeds US, an ambulance ride is HKD990 (~USD127) apparently. It is mentioned elsewhere in this topic that its $82 in Canada for an ambulance.

Re: Cities with Uber Have Lower Rates of Ambulance Usage

#174

Post by mjburgess »

dmichulke wrote: post #167
dpwm wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't disown capitalism from its problems that easily. It's not hard to see that it is in short-term self interest to form cartels, lobby for regulation, crush competition and treat their (now captive) customers with contempt. This is a pattern we have seen time and again. Describing this as "about as far away as you can get from capitalism" is the no true Scotsman fallacy. Perhaps it doesn't match how you believ…

> It's not hard to see that it is in short-term self interest to form cartels Cartels are only a problem if no new suppliers can enter the market. > lobby for regulation This is a problem of any representative system. Convince them and you're set. No capitalism involved. > crush competition Just a consequence of the abovementioned. Summary: step 2 is the crucial problem, it's usually corruption or idiocy and a govern…

really-existing capitalism involves co-opting local power structures (parliaments, legislatures, dictatorships, puppets, etc.) to protect your cartel.

If capitalism is only capitalism when there is no conglomerated power structure then capitalism is impossible.

Often enough today its the left who are defenders of capitalism (ie., of disentangling power structures from coporate control) whereas the right seems possessed by the idea that whatever a company does is by definition captailism.

Capitalism was all about recognizing that business interests are anti-capitalist.

Re: Cities with Uber Have Lower Rates of Ambulance Usage

#175

Post by dbancajas »

nofilter wrote: post #160
throwaway0255 wrote: post #48

I injured myself and needed to go to the ER. The injury wasn't life threatening, but I definitely needed to go to the hospital immediately. I called an Uber. I don't have the time or expertise to do the months of legalese and calculus it would take me to understand my insurance policy, so I have no idea how much an ambulance ride would have cost me. $0? $400? $15000? None of those numbers would surprise me. As best I…

Yeah, never moving to America. Never. I value my life more than that. In Estonia (and I'd imagine most of Europe), the ambulance ride is free (unless you prank call them, then you get a fine). The healthcare is free (paid by your employer), doesn't matter how badly you're injured. The only thing that's not free is dental care, but you can insure that, so you pay a monthly fee and they cover the actual cost if somethi…

Is it a good place to live? What about racism etc?

Re: Cities with Uber Have Lower Rates of Ambulance Usage

#176

Post by Fiahil »

StreamBright wrote: post #129
rconti wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife was in a car accident, and surprisingly, the ambulance bill (perhaps 5 miles, "night" surcharge (7pm), private ambulance in the bay area) was "only" ~$3400. I seem to recall an ambulance ride when I was a kid (20 years ago) costing something like $5k plus when I crashed my bicycle. Funny thing, though, the ambulance bill was the only thing NOT covered 100% initially. The hospital and surgeons bill your insura…

These sort of stories I usually use to explain to non-US people how is to live there.

If I’m a foreigner and I’m breaking my arm while being in San Francisco, do I have to pay for the 5k bill coming my way, too ?

Re: Cities with Uber Have Lower Rates of Ambulance Usage

#177

Post by jacquesm »

Cities with Taxis have lower rates of ambulance usage too.

In fact, any kind of public transportation will result in lower ambulance usage. Because when there are alternatives some %age of ambulance rides will be replaced by some %age of public transportation rides.

Re: Cities with Uber Have Lower Rates of Ambulance Usage

#178

Post by jacquesm »

Fiahil wrote: post #176
StreamBright wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These sort of stories I usually use to explain to non-US people how is to live there.

If I’m a foreigner and I’m breaking my arm while being in San Francisco, do I have to pay for the 5k bill coming my way, too ?

Depends on the quality of your travel insurance.

Some credit cards come with automatic travel insurance, but regardless it is well worth researching before you travel. Hospital stays abroad sometimes need to be paid out-of-pocket until you are reimbursed later on.

It all depends on the circumstances, your country of origin and any extra insurance you might have taken out.

I ended up in hospital for a fairly routine operation about a decade ago and had to pay out of pocket, luckily it was in a place where they just charge you for actual cost rather than to try to balance their budget by bankrupting you so it ended up being $1500. The same thing in the US would have been a large multiple.

Re: Cities with Uber Have Lower Rates of Ambulance Usage

#179

Post by Xylakant »

blhack wrote: post #82
throwaway0255 wrote: post #48

I injured myself and needed to go to the ER. The injury wasn't life threatening, but I definitely needed to go to the hospital immediately. I called an Uber. I don't have the time or expertise to do the months of legalese and calculus it would take me to understand my insurance policy, so I have no idea how much an ambulance ride would have cost me. $0? $400? $15000? None of those numbers would surprise me. As best I…

There is pretty much nothing that infuriates me more than the health insurance system. Here is just one example (other than your ambulance example, which is like some trolley-car problem come real): We use "insurance" for routine medical examinations which are supposedly to be done regardless of health. We use "insurance" for YEARLY checkups. The absurdity of this is on par with insuring yourself against getting hung…

It absolutely makes sense to insure routine medical examinations. If they’re not covered, people don’t do them. Many routine examinations uncover conditions that are not critical yet and easy to treat before they turn into a costly nightmare. (e.g. routine skin checks uncover potential cancer before it spreads, tooth checks uncover problems before they require expensive replacement) It’s an investment, not only health-wise, but also financially for the health insurance.

Re: Cities with Uber Have Lower Rates of Ambulance Usage

#180

Post by aquadrop »

chrisseaton wrote: post #165
sitepodmatt wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3.4k and 5k. I would expect the keys to ambulance after the ride for that price. How can that cost be justified, did you get any treatment in the ambulance other than oxygen and maybe some morphine?

It's not just a ride in a vehicle is it? Ambulances carry paramedics and sometimes doctors, tens of thousands of dollars worth of drugs and equipment. Even if you don't use all of that, they can't do anything else during the time that they're on your call, they need to be heavily insured, and they also need to stand by all day waiting for calls.

Ok, let's say 3 people with reasonable salaries, $10k a month. Equipment and a car even though is costly is used for long period, let's say $500k over 5 years, that's $8.3k a month. Medications are expendable, because the more load an ambulance has (and medication usage) the more revenue it brings, but ok, let's add $10k a month for resupplying medications, plus other small expenses it's total $50k a month. In the situation described by rconti (5 miles) it probably took them less than an hour for revenue of $3400, let's say an hour, and let's say they have average load of 3 such calls a day (not really a heavy load). It's more than $300k a month in revenue. So, what's the reason for $250k difference?
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