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Netflix: What Happens When You Press Play?

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Re: Netflix: What Happens When You Press Play?

#121
post #107

There's something about this article, it kind of feels like a sequence of staccato thoughts. It feels like it kind of jumps around.

I did try to tell a story, but I don't think I succeeded as well as I would have liked. It definitely does jump around more than it should. It's hard to cover the important bits and link them seamlessly together. I'm just not that good a writer.

Practice makes perfect! It was frustrating because I think I saw what you were going for and it's a good idea.

Don't be afraid to drop things, even if they're important.

You've got a title, right? "What happens when you press play". Answer that question. There's a whole load there that is interesting but doesn't answer the question of "Given Netflix have a bunch of video ready to go, how does that reach me?". Don't get me wrong, the rest is interesting, and important when thinking about Netflix as a whole, but ultimately I'm unsure they fit in the article.

You might be worried about missing important bits, I personally worry about losing readers. It doesn't matter how important something is, if my target audience quits 15% of the way through the article.

Anyway, no sweat really, blogging is hard enough. It's been a long time since I've written regularly, and I just started a personal blog, and yeah, a few weeks later im sitting on a mound of drafts I need to take a 'minimum viable post' eye to. :)

Merry Christmas!

Re: Netflix: What Happens When You Press Play?

#122
> The video comes in a high definition format that’s many terabytes in size. A terabyte is big. Imagine 60 stacks of paper as tall as the Eiffel Tower. That’s a terabyte.

What... No. An HD ProRes will be 150-200GB for a 1.5-2 hour film. That is a 1920x1080 Apple ProRes 422 HQ @ ~190Mbps which is the 'gold standard' accepted Mezz file for Netflix, Google Play, iTunes, AIV (Microsoft, Sony, TalkTalk etc). There are different codecs for broadcasters but this is the standard for VoD. If you deliver uncompressed (uncommon, few relative gains) then it might run into the hundreds of GB but never a multi-terabyte file for a feature.

Although most of this article has been informative, I am dismayed by the outright BS. It basically ruins any trust I would have of this otherwise well written piece. Can your exaggeration be explained or justified please?

Re: Netflix: What Happens When You Press Play?

#123
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, as an ISP owner, I can tell you 70-75% of my traffic come through GGC, for every 1gbps traffic from cache nodes 100mbps on average is pulled from the internet. Even with GGC nodes, it's still very expensive, BW-wise.

I saw another comment on here in the distant past that said an ISP owner decided to pull out the GGC boxes because they would sync vast amounts of data (largely YouTube IIRC) and it wasn't worth it bandwdith wise for them. It sounds like 10:1 is a decent saving but still objectively a lot of data.

You can't survive as an ISP if you don't have GGC nodes or directly peered with google DC. If your customer wants to watch youtube videos and you serve them through internet only, which will either mean you will have to buy more BW (not financially sustainable) or you will have to cap youtube traffic resulting in inferior user experience and a customer leaving your service. Or just ban youtube - might as well stop running an ISP.

The best solution is to peer with their DC - let them do the heavy lifting and you can pull from their cache, then you can chuck the GGC nodes. Google is building a small DC close to our NOC - which means lots of saving for us and a better experience for our customers. We can see us chucking the nodes or in this case, we most likely have to give it back to them or something - they are very expensive and large supermicro servers.

10:1 is not a lot if you are serving a lot of traffic. For 50gbps, thats 5gbps bw - that's a lot of bw for free service - we don't cap youtube traffic (users likely to watch high res 1080p, 4k videos nowadays), we can't sell youtube traffic (license agreement from google) - so as far as ISPs are concerned its pissing away money. To be honest services like youtube, facebook and Netflix, even with their on-premise cache solution are a huge headache and expense for ISPs - it's not just the BW, rack-space, distribution switches, power, they all add up.

There is a reason why Google with all their expertise, knowledge, money and influence can't even make a dent in their ISP business - because even with all their money - it insanely expensive when you try to cover most of the country.

Re: Netflix: What Happens When You Press Play?

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people were quite angry. I don't think this is true. Some enterprises were concerned about the security aspects and asked for greater controls, which Microsoft provided, but Windows 10 has not removed P2P updates, AFAIK.

It has not but I think it's not enabled by default now, and you can declare you want it but limit to a certain amount if on a metered connection, or just turn it on fully. I think it was the metered connection bit people were annoyed about, especially those who were tethering to their phones and then it downloaded/shared a huge amount of data.

> I think it's not enabled by default now

This is easy enough to check with a simple Google search. (It's still enabled by default).

Re: Netflix: What Happens When You Press Play?

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But even technical people sometimes don't know simple acronyms. It doesn't hurt to define them anyway.

mentioning cdn would be akin to a car review magazine mentioning ABS in an article and then dedicated a couple sentences explaining what ABS is

Hmm I dont know what CDN or ABS are.

Re: Netflix: What Happens When You Press Play?

#126
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My beef was not more like "who did it first", I honestly don't know and I couldn't find a reference online of anyone did something like this at this scale before google/youtube/akamai. The Point is the global scale of this on-premise network and the amount of data they move. I think Netflix is a blip compare to youtube/google/Akamai/facebook (I recently learned facebook also has a similar program, but I think they al…

Netflix isn't a blip. For instance: https://fortunedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/apps-by-in... Still true in 2017: https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/05/u-s-cord-cutters-watch-mor... Regardless, long form video streamed globally without buffering is incredibly difficult. Short form clips are drastically easier. Do the math on how much content at what quality can fit in a given cache, or how long it takes to swap a p…

Thanks for the references. I was referring to who did a large _volume of traffic_ in this type of distributed node first on a _global scale_ - not who did it / patented it first.

Most importantly, outside the North-American/Europe echo chamber Netflix is a blip (a large blip nonetheless) compare to google/facebook/Akamai (probably even Cloudflare) traffic. I don't say this to undermine what Netflix does both as a service and a Network Engineering standpoint - I am personally a big fan of their service and their tech blog - I was trying to make a point on some info mentioned in the blog.

I am sorry if I wasn't able to express my point properly.

Re: Netflix: What Happens When You Press Play?

#127
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netflix isn't a blip. For instance: https://fortunedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/apps-by-in... Still true in 2017: https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/05/u-s-cord-cutters-watch-mor... Regardless, long form video streamed globally without buffering is incredibly difficult. Short form clips are drastically easier. Do the math on how much content at what quality can fit in a given cache, or how long it takes to swap a p…

Thanks for the references. I was referring to who did a large _volume of traffic_ in this type of distributed node first on a _global scale_ - not who did it / patented it first. Most importantly, outside the North-American/Europe echo chamber Netflix is a blip (a large blip nonetheless) compare to google/facebook/Akamai (probably even Cloudflare) traffic. I don't say this to undermine what Netflix does both as a ser…

> I was referring to who did a large _volume of traffic_ in this type of distributed node first on a _global scale_ - not who did it / patented it first.

I am too.

For example, even back then we did live streaming events of millions of simultaneous viewers and billions of on-demand streams a month, from petabytes of content in 14 datacenters globally (including Southeast Asia). All before Netflix, Google, Facebook. Akamai and most of the top CDNs were clients.

> Outside NA/EU echo chamber Netflix is a blip...

Netflix is very much playing outside ‘the echo chamber’: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/a20138/netflix-in...

And growing: http://variety.com/2017/digital/news/netflix-250-million-hou...

If you have stats that show they are ‘a blip’ in traffic volume globally, please share.

> I was trying to make a point on some info in the blog

By continuing to insist Netflix is “a blip”, and offering no definition of what you mean by large scale, or why you’re so sure Google is doing video delivery networking better, I’m finding it difficult to have a substantive discussion.

PS. You started an ISP in Southeast Asia, and looks like you had Google/Akamai footprint for your ISP. So maybe your ‘blip’ assertion is your ISP data? From the provider point of view, different ISPs (even in US) had very different viewing patterns. Without looking into individual ISPs, we guessed this related to median connection speeds, peering headroom, and localized content/viewing preferences.

Re: Netflix: What Happens When You Press Play?

#128

I feel bit sorry for Netflix, for the lengths they have gone to get their high performance/reliable architecture but the clients are still at the mercy of the OS, browsers, CPU (decoding codecs) of-course assuming high speed Internet. From their website - https://help.netflix.com/en/node/23742 Resolution: Google Chrome Up to 720p on Windows, Mac, and Linux. Up to 1080p on Chrome OS. Internet Explorer up to 1080p. Mic…

DRM, you should be sorry for the users

Re: Netflix: What Happens When You Press Play?

#129
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw another comment on here in the distant past that said an ISP owner decided to pull out the GGC boxes because they would sync vast amounts of data (largely YouTube IIRC) and it wasn't worth it bandwdith wise for them. It sounds like 10:1 is a decent saving but still objectively a lot of data.

You can't survive as an ISP if you don't have GGC nodes or directly peered with google DC. If your customer wants to watch youtube videos and you serve them through internet only, which will either mean you will have to buy more BW (not financially sustainable) or you will have to cap youtube traffic resulting in inferior user experience and a customer leaving your service. Or just ban youtube - might as well stop ru…

> You can't survive as an ISP if you don't have GGC nodes or directly peered with google DC.

Believe me, you can. Deutsche Telekom, Germany's AT&T and Europe's biggest ISP, does this and in the evening YouTube videos regularly stutter on FullHD. But the customers just don't care enough.

Re: Netflix: What Happens When You Press Play?

#130
post #31

I'd be interested in finding out what happens when I press the thumbs down/up icon on Netflix, because the match ratings that are displayed to me seem to have nothing to do with either my ratings or with my watching history.

The recommendation engine seems to be mostly about pushing their original content. Not shocking there.
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