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Why hasn't economic progress lowered work hours more? (2016) [video]

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Re: Why hasn't economic progress lowered work hours more? (2016) [video]

#81

Post by Daishiman »

notahacker wrote: post #67
paganel wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employers, especially those that pay benefits, want you working as much as possible. Anything less is money on the table. That’s exactly Marx’s point when he discusses his theory of Surplus Value. I know that that theory has been “debunked” and “proven” to be false, but I’m just reading now about it in its “Grundrisse” (I had read its Capital I some years ago) and it’s frightening about how right he was about subje…

Marx's writings around the working day are built on the assumption that wages will be set at the level necessary for the worker to survive long enough to turn up to work the following day rather than according to the perceived value of their labour time by the highest bidder, and that because of this near-universal day rate for undifferentiated "labour power", employers' main route to improving profitability would be…

> Marx's writings around the working day are built on the assumption that wages will be set at the level necessary for the worker to survive long enough to turn up to work the following day rather than according to the perceived value of their labour time by the highest bidder, and that because of this near-universal day rate for undifferentiated "labour power", employers' main route to improving profitability would be extending the working day, with no meaningful proportion of the workforce having the ability to change this arrangement

Dude this sounds incredibly close the experience of American retail workers nowadays.

Re: Why hasn't economic progress lowered work hours more? (2016) [video]

#82

Post by kiliantics »

a3n wrote: post #9

Most people don't get to choose how many hours they work. Employers, especially those that pay benefits, want you working as much as possible. Anything less is money on the table. (I'm not an employer.) It's good for an employer if you work overtime, all he has to pay is time, or time and a half, or nothing if you're salaried. He doesn't have to pay more benefits, as he would with an additional employee. Of course an…

So then it's because of a lack of unions. Collective bargaining could give employees more power in the negotiations to reduce the number of hours worked, while still keeping a living wage and benefits.

Re: Why hasn't economic progress lowered work hours more? (2016) [video]

#83

Post by pjmlp »

a3n wrote: post #9

Most people don't get to choose how many hours they work. Employers, especially those that pay benefits, want you working as much as possible. Anything less is money on the table. (I'm not an employer.) It's good for an employer if you work overtime, all he has to pay is time, or time and a half, or nothing if you're salaried. He doesn't have to pay more benefits, as he would with an additional employee. Of course an…

People that enjoy living in countries with strong union law usually get to choose, unless they rather keep quiet instead of reporting abuses to the respective work authorities.

This includes IT related jobs.

If people on US and other countries want these benefits, choose to get strong instead of demonizing unions.

Re: Why hasn't economic progress lowered work hours more? (2016) [video]

#84

Post by pjmlp »

maxxxxx wrote: post #56
dgellow wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, I currently work in Germany, maybe that’s why, but in my personal experience employers are very strict with overtime and only allow it when there is a justification (e.g: big project to get done at the end of the month). I guess because of strict regulations, but you also have the fact that having tired employees results in more sick days used, a higher error rate and mood swings. To be fair, even knowing this pe…

That's mainly because the unions have some power in Germany. Without them German employers would also happily have people work overtime.

It is the people getting together that gives the unions that power in first place.

Law is meaningless if workers don't make it happen.

Re: Why hasn't economic progress lowered work hours more? (2016) [video]

#85

Post by kiliantics »

nnq wrote: post #80

What we desperately need is a way to reverse-brainwash the workaholics that spoil the labor market by willing to work more than 6 hrs a day. If we could figure out a clever way to penalize them for working more we could damn enjoy the heaven-on-earth that current technology should afford us all (now that we seem to have figured out how to stop population growth too)...

The scabs of our times. They need to be socially ostracised for their complicity with the ruling class. But instead we congratulate them on their good work ethic...

Re: Why hasn't economic progress lowered work hours more? (2016) [video]

#86

Post by Daishiman »

Sniffnoy wrote: post #74
samsonradu wrote: post #6

Among other good reasons mentioned here lets not forget inequality went up and a lot of the progress is materialized at the top.

In what sense does it make sense to regard inequality as a causal factor here?

Because every serious study of the matter has shown that pretty much every metric of quality of life is negatively impacted by inequality.

Re: Why hasn't economic progress lowered work hours more? (2016) [video]

#87

Post by petra »

a3n wrote: post #9

Most people don't get to choose how many hours they work. Employers, especially those that pay benefits, want you working as much as possible. Anything less is money on the table. (I'm not an employer.) It's good for an employer if you work overtime, all he has to pay is time, or time and a half, or nothing if you're salaried. He doesn't have to pay more benefits, as he would with an additional employee. Of course an…

Still, in the same way that wages are adjusted by both sides of the labor market, why aren't work hours adjusted too ?

You see those kinds of adjustments with female employees: there's a decent amount part-time work and no-overtime in that segment, especially at families with decent income.

But not so with males. And often, for males with the privilege to work less, their job is their identity. So it's natural they like going to work.

But if the stats of this Gallup survey[1] are correct, that 70% of Americans hate their job, the reason clearly isn't love, but necessity.

[1]http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/majority-u-s-workers-n...

Re: Why hasn't economic progress lowered work hours more? (2016) [video]

#88

Post by Sniffnoy »

Daishiman wrote: post #86
Sniffnoy wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what sense does it make sense to regard inequality as a causal factor here?

Because every serious study of the matter has shown that pretty much every metric of quality of life is negatively impacted by inequality.

Causally?

Re: Why hasn't economic progress lowered work hours more? (2016) [video]

#89

Post by Daishiman »

Sniffnoy wrote: post #88
Daishiman wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because every serious study of the matter has shown that pretty much every metric of quality of life is negatively impacted by inequality.

Causally?

Yes. Here's one example https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S027795361...

Re: Why hasn't economic progress lowered work hours more? (2016) [video]

#90

Post by acchow »

It has dramatically. I have plenty of friends working full-time desk jobs that actually "work from home" 3-4 days a week and do maybe 1 or 2 hours of work over the whole day.

Everyone else is browsing reddit or instagram all day in the office. Just ask any redditor.

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