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Bitcoin and almost every other cryptocurrency crashed hard today

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Re: Bitcoin and almost every other cryptocurrency crashed hard today

#421

Post by anthony_barker »

sireat wrote: post #368
cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #83

As someone who owns and believes in cryptocurrency, I'm actually glad this happened. I was getting sick of all the get rich quick people who've been driving the price lately, even for the coins that shouldn't be pumping. It was almost as if the entire cryptocurrency space had turned into a huge unregulated casino. I was at a couple of Bitcoin meetups recently and was surprised to find that most attendees were proudly…

I am still trying to find fundamental cryptocurrency developments in 2017. 2011 were the first steps in BTC usability. 2013 was the rise of alt-coins and also BTC became actually usable(mostly due to Bitpay and Gyft) 2017 it seems all speculation. So let's take top (by market value on 12/22/2017) crypto-currencies: 1. Bitcoin - first mover, slow, expensive to use pivoted to store of value 2. Ethereum - smart contract…

Ripple - no documented consensus mechanism. Banks aren't using XRP to settle. Stellar - a better rewrite of Ripple targeting smaller Money Transmission companies.

Re: Bitcoin and almost every other cryptocurrency crashed hard today

#422

Post by imtringued »

laythea wrote: post #92
wheelie_boy wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, it's almost like the asset has no fundamental value, and is driven completely by speculation.

I am struggling to understand what currency you would define fundamental value - Loafs of bread?

Currencies don't need fundamental value they only need to remain stable something which bitcoin utterly fails at.

You cannot invest into a currency. If bitcoin rises by 30% is there a corresponding increase in fundamental value real value? No. It's a zero sum game. If somebody wins that also means someone else loses. It's pure speculation yet people treat it like a get rich quick scheme and think bitcoin cannot ever fall in price.

On the other hand you can invest into a stock. A stock will increase in price by 30% because the company has made 30% more profit or owns 30% more assets. Everyone who holds stock wins.

Re: Bitcoin and almost every other cryptocurrency crashed hard today

#423

Post by chii »

simonsarris wrote: post #159
laythea wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am struggling to understand what currency you would define fundamental value - Loafs of bread?

Any currency that a: 1. strong entity circulates and 2. wants back is fundamentally valuable. > American dollars have value because the US Government taxes things, like land, and if you do not pay those taxes they will send you mean letters (trust me) before resorting to other means (trust Al Capone). You pay these taxes in US dollars. You just having dollars does not make them valuable. And dollars are not valuable…

Bitcoins' value is the inherent mathematical properties that makes it hard to forge. things that are hard to forge can be used as tokens for other, easier to forge (but valuable) objects.

hard to forge tokens can be used to denote things that are otherwise used to denote (such as ownership, and chain of custody).

being electronic, this makes Bitcoin quite useful.

Re: Bitcoin and almost every other cryptocurrency crashed hard today

#424

Post by chii »

imtringued wrote: post #422
laythea wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am struggling to understand what currency you would define fundamental value - Loafs of bread?

Currencies don't need fundamental value they only need to remain stable something which bitcoin utterly fails at. You cannot invest into a currency. If bitcoin rises by 30% is there a corresponding increase in fundamental value real value? No. It's a zero sum game. If somebody wins that also means someone else loses. It's pure speculation yet people treat it like a get rich quick scheme and think bitcoin cannot ever…

and a company's stock value could increase (or decrease) on a mere rumour. why isn't that equivalent?

Re: Bitcoin and almost every other cryptocurrency crashed hard today

#425

Post by chii »

mrhappyunhappy wrote: post #409
increment_i wrote: post #236

Looks like people have already started buying the dip. I've found the recent discussions around BTC and cryptocoins on this forum incredibly illuminating, from both the bulls and the bears. I'm beginning to think perhaps there's no point in discussing the fundamental financial flaws of cryptos, or their lack of inherent value. I'm beginning to think their main utility in is meeting a human need that's existed since a…

Most people here seem to be completely oblivious to the movement behind Bitcoin and what it means for the world as the antiquated financial systems are replaced with people in control of their own money. The fact that everyone is so fixated on price shows the lack of imagination and forward thinking about what is coming. You call it gambling, we call it being ahead of the curve when the rest of the world only wakes u…

The state will never let its power to control its currency go.

if (or when) Bitcoins become so ubiquitous that it poses a threat, it will just be out outlawed in a way that still protects Fiat.

Re: Bitcoin and almost every other cryptocurrency crashed hard today

#426

Post by wheelie_boy »

chii wrote: post #423
simonsarris wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any currency that a: 1. strong entity circulates and 2. wants back is fundamentally valuable. > American dollars have value because the US Government taxes things, like land, and if you do not pay those taxes they will send you mean letters (trust me) before resorting to other means (trust Al Capone). You pay these taxes in US dollars. You just having dollars does not make them valuable. And dollars are not valuable…

Bitcoins' value is the inherent mathematical properties that makes it hard to forge. things that are hard to forge can be used as tokens for other, easier to forge (but valuable) objects. hard to forge tokens can be used to denote things that are otherwise used to denote (such as ownership, and chain of custody). being electronic, this makes Bitcoin quite useful.

Yeah, being hard to forge is necessary, but not sufficient.

There are a ton of electronic currencies that are difficult to forge, for example Flooz, Beenz, and the gems in clash of clans.

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