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UK Cops Want to Use AI to Spot Child Abuse But It Mistakes Desert Pics for Nudes

gizmodo.com

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Re: UK Cops Want to Use AI to Spot Child Abuse But It Mistakes Desert Pics for Nudes

#61

Post by M2Ys4U »

jotm wrote: post #54
DanBC wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pornography was extreme. It was found a few weeks before laws were introduced that made it unlawful. This claim has been made many times, in print, and Green has denied it but not used UK defamation law to prevent the claims being made or to force corrections to be printed.

What is extreme porn? I'm really skeptical of politicians that want to ban "extreme pornography" on the Internet yet let actual prostitution just kind of, slide under the radar. Surprisingly not many Brits are aware that you can get a couple of high end hookers who will do anything for a few hundred quid per hour, and it's legal. Lots of these "escorts" are barely legal age, as well. Maybe it's a ploy to get people o…

> What is extreme porn?

According to Section 63(2) of the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008:

  An “extreme pornographic image” is an image which is both—

  (a) pornographic, and

  (b) an extreme image.
Hope that helps!

At least, though, in subsection 7 and 7A they define "extreme", as well as providing a nice catch-all of "grossly offensive, disgusting or otherwise of an obscene character":

  (7) An image falls within this subsection if it portrays, in an explicit and realistic way, any of the following—

    (a) an act which threatens a person's life,

    (b) an act which results, or is likely to result, in serious injury to a person's anus, breasts or genitals,

    (c) an act which involves sexual interference with a human corpse, or

    (d) a person performing an act of intercourse or oral sex with an animal (whether dead or alive),

  and a reasonable person looking at the image would think that any such person or animal was real.

  (7A) An image falls within this subsection if it portrays, in an explicit and realistic way, either of the following—

    (a) an act which involves the non-consensual penetration of a person's vagina, anus or mouth by another with the other person's penis, or

    (b) an act which involves the non-consensual sexual penetration of a person's vagina or anus by another with a part of the other person's body or anything else,

  and a reasonable person looking at the image would think that the persons were real.

Re: UK Cops Want to Use AI to Spot Child Abuse But It Mistakes Desert Pics for Nudes

#62

Post by soundwave106 »

demosthenes111 wrote: post #6

I suspect part of the problem with this approach relates to data set construction. Even though models these days should theoretically be able to handle this task, there are clear ethical concerns and practical issues with making datasets of illegal imagery large enough for training. It really raises the question - is creating a dataset like that ethical, assuming the intentions are to stop further abuse and dissemina…

Honestly, if they stored evidence collected from previous cases, the data probably already exists in some form. As long as the data was closely guarded internally, I'm not sure if there would be an ethics problem using this for training.

The biggest problem with obscenity detection, though, is getting the context right. The AI might be able to get to the point where it can detect "naked human" at a good percentage level. At the moment, however, I doubt it could detect whether the naked human was considered obscene in current culture, eg: the difference between "child pornography" and "famous Vietnam War photo" as alluded to in the Gizmodo article. So no matter how good their model gets, without further refinements in AI it would only be good for a "first pass", I would think.

Re: UK Cops Want to Use AI to Spot Child Abuse But It Mistakes Desert Pics for Nudes

#63

Post by M2Ys4U »

bionoid wrote: post #52
zimablue wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not familiar with the wider thesis you seem to be advocating, (could we get a link?) but calling porn a "cult" seems like a stretch, it's not something that has been created by a group and spread through brainwashing, porn is throughout history and across cultures.

I don't have a link that explains the situation well, which is why I am [slowly] working on a documentary project to bring it to the public. > calling porn a "cult" seems like a stretch That is the general perception, but as I said initially, girls are indoctrinated and trained using advanced psychological manipulation, indistinguishable from what most people think a "cult" is. Everyone is free to believe that massiv…

>Everyone is free to believe that massive numbers of young girls just absolutely love the taste of cum, rimming, and so on. Nothing fishy is going on...

Or they could be, you know, acting.

Re: UK Cops Want to Use AI to Spot Child Abuse But It Mistakes Desert Pics for Nudes

#64

Post by ajmurmann »

I don't get it. Who thinks it's a good idea to fully automate anything like this? Regardless of how accurate the algorithm is a human should look at this before any action is taken. As long as the aren't false negative this is probably a huge win. Even if we have 5% false positives that hugely cuts down at what people need to look at. So desert pictures looking like child porn doesn't matter much. Child porn looking like something else is much worse.

Edit: awful typo "lol" -> "look"

Re: UK Cops Want to Use AI to Spot Child Abuse But It Mistakes Desert Pics for Nudes

#65

Post by tritium »

henpa wrote: post #20
tritium wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But... I... I just want to know the answers. That reset quiz button... It’s... Why?

lol! The missing "submit" and only a "reset" button also drove me nuts!!! That page actually does some javascript code, which is not currently working. (you can see this when you click on one of the options while in console/devtools).

Oh, ha! Awesome! I was killing time on my phone, without full debug options, and from the looks of the site, I figured maybe they were being extra cute.

Re: UK Cops Want to Use AI to Spot Child Abuse But It Mistakes Desert Pics for Nudes

#66

Post by lostlogin »

nly wrote: post #36
edjw wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No laws requiring ISPs to apply filters. It's just a voluntary agreement between ISPs and the Government. The Digital Economy Act 2017 has provisions in it to allow ISPs to apply default filters if subscribers agree to them in terms of service. There are requirements in the DEA 2017 for 'adult' websites to verify the age of people who visit the site with the threat of their website being blocked if they don't comply.…

You're missing one important detail: the reason the agreement is 'voluntary' is that the Government threatened to force ISPs to do it through law if they didn't volunteer.

Voluntold.

Re: UK Cops Want to Use AI to Spot Child Abuse But It Mistakes Desert Pics for Nudes

#67

Post by dazc »

thecopy wrote: post #14

A bigger question is why does the police spend time looking for pornography? What type of society is the UK developing into?

We (the UK) recently experienced a scandal where a celebrity was allegedly a prolific paedophile. After his death it transpired that numerous incidents had been reported and covered up by the police and the BBC (his main employer).

So now, guess what, the same police and BBC have transformed to be holier than thou organisations free to cast judgement on anyone they don't like because this will absolve them of any guilt regarding past failures (obviously).

Re: UK Cops Want to Use AI to Spot Child Abuse But It Mistakes Desert Pics for Nudes

#68

Post by lostlogin »

avh02 wrote: post #22

Having grown up in Saudi, I had heard that they had (literally) the same issue when MMS was originally introduced many years ago - but they have a lot more desert and are simply looking for porn, not even anything abusive.

Given that children are forced into marriage in Saudi, it would seem strange for them to care about images of the abuse they condone. A small bit of consistency at least.
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