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UK Cops Want to Use AI to Spot Child Abuse But It Mistakes Desert Pics for Nudes

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Re: UK Cops Want to Use AI to Spot Child Abuse But It Mistakes Desert Pics for Nudes

#51

Post by IanCal »

Brotkrumen wrote: post #43
IanCal wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There would be a significant benefit to just being able to reliably get rough numbers plus some examples of the worst pictures for an expert to grade rather than having the task of searching 10000 horrific pictures to see if any fall into certain categories.

That's what their story is, but unlikely to be true. All "horrific" pictures will have to be graded by a human, because you have the right to face your accuser, the service providers will not let you near their codebase and AI won't be 100% accurate in the next few years. What they will be able to do with that software is trawl through orders of magnitudes more pictures, filter by probable hits and show those to staf…

Cases reported in the media usually talk about people having thousands of pictures each, I wasn't talking about thousands of different people.

Re: UK Cops Want to Use AI to Spot Child Abuse But It Mistakes Desert Pics for Nudes

#52

Post by bionoid »

zimablue wrote: post #48
bionoid wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One person's abuse can be another person's pornography. That is accurate for virtually all pornography. If you research how the "industry" works, you will quickly discover that it's built on advanced psychology, specifically hypnosis, torture, culture of fear and other brainwashing techniques. The porn cult is every bit as vicious, evil and destructive to women as any cult you can name.

I'm not familiar with the wider thesis you seem to be advocating, (could we get a link?) but calling porn a "cult" seems like a stretch, it's not something that has been created by a group and spread through brainwashing, porn is throughout history and across cultures.

I don't have a link that explains the situation well, which is why I am [slowly] working on a documentary project to bring it to the public.

> calling porn a "cult" seems like a stretch

That is the general perception, but as I said initially, girls are indoctrinated and trained using advanced psychological manipulation, indistinguishable from what most people think a "cult" is.

Everyone is free to believe that massive numbers of young girls just absolutely love the taste of cum, rimming, and so on. Nothing fishy is going on...

Re: UK Cops Want to Use AI to Spot Child Abuse But It Mistakes Desert Pics for Nudes

#53

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

So, the Met wants to train image recognition AI to find child abuse images? I'd be surprised if there aren't some interesting ethical questions around this.

To begin with, the way image recognition algorithms work -they learn from examples- to train an image recognition AI to identify images of child abuse you'd have to provide it with a substantial database of such images. I'm pretty sure that's illegal, although of course the Met probably has some sort of exception for the purpose of fighting crime. But, they still have to keep around a big database of child abuse images - and update it regularly, to do this job. It's kind of... icky.

Then again, what about victim protection? Besides the fact that keeping such a database is risky because it can always fall into the wrong hands (it only takes one misconfigured database server) it's also a characteristic of the most advanced image recognition algorithms (conv-nets) that their models can be used to generate new images of the kind they've learned to identify. So presumably, if the model itself fell into the wrong hands, someone could start generating new child-abuse images from it (low-fidelity and not really very useful, I imagine, but still).

So I wonder if the Met has addressed such ethical issues, anywhere.

Re: UK Cops Want to Use AI to Spot Child Abuse But It Mistakes Desert Pics for Nudes

#54

Post by jotm »

DanBC wrote: post #49
yetanother1980 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This post is factually inaccurate and defamatory. The computer was searched as part of a separate investigation (into leaks) which found nothing. The pornography was not extreme.

The pornography was extreme. It was found a few weeks before laws were introduced that made it unlawful. This claim has been made many times, in print, and Green has denied it but not used UK defamation law to prevent the claims being made or to force corrections to be printed.

What is extreme porn?

I'm really skeptical of politicians that want to ban "extreme pornography" on the Internet yet let actual prostitution just kind of, slide under the radar.

Surprisingly not many Brits are aware that you can get a couple of high end hookers who will do anything for a few hundred quid per hour, and it's legal. Lots of these "escorts" are barely legal age, as well.

Maybe it's a ploy to get people off porn and into actual sex lol.

Re: UK Cops Want to Use AI to Spot Child Abuse But It Mistakes Desert Pics for Nudes

#55

Post by yetanother1980 »

DanBC wrote: post #49
yetanother1980 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This post is factually inaccurate and defamatory. The computer was searched as part of a separate investigation (into leaks) which found nothing. The pornography was not extreme.

The pornography was extreme. It was found a few weeks before laws were introduced that made it unlawful. This claim has been made many times, in print, and Green has denied it but not used UK defamation law to prevent the claims being made or to force corrections to be printed.

Maybe because he does not want any more details of his porn usage spread around - there would inevitablely be discovery if there were to be a libel case. Plenty of people use porn that is not extreme but would be embarrassing.

Edit - Also even the police have stated that there was nothing illegal found.

Additionally he was in opposition not in government at the time of the raid.

Edit again: in the UK as you should well know one is expected to provide evidence along with defamatory statements. Do you have any evidence?

Re: UK Cops Want to Use AI to Spot Child Abuse But It Mistakes Desert Pics for Nudes

#56

Post by [deleted] »

jotm wrote: post #54
DanBC wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pornography was extreme. It was found a few weeks before laws were introduced that made it unlawful. This claim has been made many times, in print, and Green has denied it but not used UK defamation law to prevent the claims being made or to force corrections to be printed.

What is extreme porn? I'm really skeptical of politicians that want to ban "extreme pornography" on the Internet yet let actual prostitution just kind of, slide under the radar. Surprisingly not many Brits are aware that you can get a couple of high end hookers who will do anything for a few hundred quid per hour, and it's legal. Lots of these "escorts" are barely legal age, as well. Maybe it's a ploy to get people o…

[deleted]

Re: UK Cops Want to Use AI to Spot Child Abuse But It Mistakes Desert Pics for Nudes

#57

Post by whathaschanged »

gaius wrote: post #45

The UK police are dealing with a scandal right now in that they tend to suppress electronic evidence proving a suspect is innocent and try to prosecute anyway. The last thing we should give them is another electronic capability. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/19/met-orders-review...

The UK police are dealing with a scandal where they supress evidence physical child rapists are guilty if they happen to be muslim.

Re: UK Cops Want to Use AI to Spot Child Abuse But It Mistakes Desert Pics for Nudes

#58

Post by coding123 »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #53

So, the Met wants to train image recognition AI to find child abuse images? I'd be surprised if there aren't some interesting ethical questions around this. To begin with, the way image recognition algorithms work -they learn from examples - to train an image recognition AI to identify images of child abuse you'd have to provide it with a substantial database of such images. I'm pretty sure that's illegal, although o…

Law enforcement already has tons of child porn lying around used primarily to frame people. Of course similar to drug planting it is extremely hard to defend because no one wants to risk defending someone charged with that. There are exceptions and I'm not saying people like Jared from Subway aren't guilty. There are many many many lesser known individuals that are hushed up using child porn.

So I'm basically saying there is no ethical problem (from their perspective) because feds/cops already deal with this all the time and plant this on people like drugs.

Re: UK Cops Want to Use AI to Spot Child Abuse But It Mistakes Desert Pics for Nudes

#59

Post by codefined »

lfowles wrote: post #47
tritium wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But... I... I just want to know the answers. That reset quiz button... It’s... Why?

From the source: false, true, true, false, true, true, false, false, true, true, true, false, true, false (go left to right, top to bottom)

False & true aren't great terms to use for an "either or" question.

Re: UK Cops Want to Use AI to Spot Child Abuse But It Mistakes Desert Pics for Nudes

#60

Post by ravenstine »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #53

So, the Met wants to train image recognition AI to find child abuse images? I'd be surprised if there aren't some interesting ethical questions around this. To begin with, the way image recognition algorithms work -they learn from examples - to train an image recognition AI to identify images of child abuse you'd have to provide it with a substantial database of such images. I'm pretty sure that's illegal, although o…

Who wants to be the developer to train a neural network on child porn? You couldn't pay me all the money in the world twice over to take that job.
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