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Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

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Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#81

Post by seldo »

wmf wrote: post #25
seldo wrote: post #6

Excuse the really really obvious question, but how can you sue somebody for intellectual property infringement on open-source software? Didn't you already give anybody the license to do what they wanted with it? If they've violated the license terms in some way, isn't that different from IP infringement?

It's important to understand that Android doesn't use Oracle's open-source OpenJDK. An argument could be made that Oracle licenses the necessary patents only for OpenJDK and not for alternate implementations such as Dalvik. An argument could be made that Oracle licenses patents only for JVMs that are TCK-compliant, which Dalvik isn't. An argument could be made that Oracle licenses patents for GPLed JVMs but not for A…

Thanks, it naively hadn't occurred to me that Android would be using a non-Sun JVM, and given what you've said it seems that would be a viable route for an IP lawsuit (though it still seems in pretty bad faith).

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#82

Post by wmf »

sorbus wrote: post #29
tptacek wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course you can. There'd be no such thing as an enforceable software patent if any company could just sponsor an open source project to implement each part of its product that infringed a patent. Presumably --- hopefully 'grellas will clear this up --- Oracle can measure damages incurred by Google supplanting Sun/Oracle Java with their own Java in terms of percentage points of global smartphone revenue. Here's some…

So if I, as a company, release something as open source (licensing the patents[1] with no royalty to anyone who's interested, as long as they follow the rules in the license), then I, as the same company, can turn around and sue anyone who uses it for infringing those same patents? [1] I assume that when software covered by patents is released as open source, the patents are also implicitly granted as part of the lic…

You can probably sue somebody who uses different software that infringes your patents, which is what this lawsuit is about.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#83

Post by Timothee »

gahahaha wrote: post #4
tptacek wrote: post #2

"Java is the single most important software we've ever acquired," Oracle Chief Executive Larry Ellison said during a conference call [...] ... "and if you don't do everything I say, I'll blow up the moon! Ah-hahahahah!" How do you not love this guy? Somebody get him a black cape.

He is just trying to save /more/ children in Africa. http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB10001424052748704... Larry Ellison is a saint! ... and an asshole.

The letter he wrote for the Giving Pledge website actually shows a bit of him being a saint and an asshole:

http://givingpledge.org/#larry_ellison

To whom it may concern,

Many years ago, I put virtually all of my assets into a trust with the intent of giving away at least 95% of my wealth to charitable causes. I have already given hundreds of millions of dollars to medical research and education, and I will give billions more over time. Until now, I have done this giving quietly – because I have long believed that charitable giving is a personal and private matter. So why am I going public now? Warren Buffett personally asked me to write this letter because he said I would be “setting an example” and “influencing others” to give. I hope he’s right.

Larry Ellison

On one hand, he is giving a lot, on the other, you can tell he couldn't care less about the pledge and the letter.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#84

Post by [deleted] »

donaq wrote: post #50

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand this decision. Is Oracle in need of cash or something? Why did they become patent trolls? I mean, they're not even in the smart phone business, and it's not like Google is going to put a DBMS into Android. How are they being threatened in any way by Google?

[deleted]

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#86

Post by pquerna »

noonespecial wrote: post #13

It just goes to show that whatever company-de-jour promises about enforcing the patents that they are granted today, all bets are off when they fall on hard times and are acquired tomorrow. Serious about openness? Skip the "patent and promise" dance and just release the damn thing BSD.

That is why you would license it under the Apache License, because it has explicit patent clauses, rather than something like the BSD license.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#87

Post by zb »

CamperBob wrote: post #58
mhansen wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first sentence in TFA: Oracle Corp. said Thursday it has filed a copyright-infringement lawsuit against Google Inc.

The article is by some moron journalist who doesn't know that there's a difference between patents and copyrights.

To be fair to the journalist concerned, if you read to the bottom of the complaint you'll find that there are 7 claims of patent infringement and 1 of copyright infringement.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#88

Post by Timothee »

tptacek wrote: post #11
seldo wrote: post #6

Excuse the really really obvious question, but how can you sue somebody for intellectual property infringement on open-source software? Didn't you already give anybody the license to do what they wanted with it? If they've violated the license terms in some way, isn't that different from IP infringement?

Of course you can. There'd be no such thing as an enforceable software patent if any company could just sponsor an open source project to implement each part of its product that infringed a patent. Presumably --- hopefully 'grellas will clear this up --- Oracle can measure damages incurred by Google supplanting Sun/Oracle Java with their own Java in terms of percentage points of global smartphone revenue. Here's some…

As others have said, it sounds like you misinterpreted the comment. The open-source software Seldo is referring to seems to be Java, not Android.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#89

Post by technomancy »

noonespecial wrote: post #13

It just goes to show that whatever company-de-jour promises about enforcing the patents that they are granted today, all bets are off when they fall on hard times and are acquired tomorrow. Serious about openness? Skip the "patent and promise" dance and just release the damn thing BSD.

The BSD license would be useless here. Preventing this kind of thing is the whole point of the third revision of the GPL; to my knowledge there are no other software licenses that do this.
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