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Why Bitcoin will fail

meaningofstuff.blogspot.com

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Re: Why Bitcoin will fail

#21

Post by proofofanalysis »

noncoml wrote: post #20
proofofanalysis wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The incorruptibility of the ledger is the value.

> The incorruptibility of the ledger is the value. It cannot feed me, it cannot protect me from the elements, I cannot grow food on it and is not a tool to help me create something desirable by the others. Hence it has no value.

Bitcoin, being a form of wealth, can give you all the things you just described.

That it has no value during an apocalyptic scenario, does not mean it does not have value in the non-apocalyptic times.

Re: Why Bitcoin will fail

#22

Post by nske »

overcast wrote: post #2

It's already failed. It's gone from the currency of the future, to a store of a value, to just a pure speculative commodity. Nothing more or less. Use it to make money, and get out.

No, you see that's not Bitcoin. That's how different numbers of people perceive or use Bitcoin at different times. Bitcoin is ever adjusting and changing, often making short-term sacrifices and failing to meet certain expectations that people have at the time. It would really fail if a fundamental technical flaw was discovered or if it hit a brick wall where realistic solutions to current problems stopped being actively worked on. So far that hasn't been the case.

So what matters is the technical side, things that are actively being developed, such as the Lightning network, and that at least some entrepreneurs understand this technical side sufficiently enough to build services that translate its fundamental value into things that people can more easily understand and appreciate. Much like the internet in early days.

Someone could go back 20 years and say "where are all these revolutionary things we keep reading about that would be possible? Wild speculations, Internet has failed."

Of course Bitcoin might fail, but I believe something like Bitcoin will succeed -and Bitcoin itself seems like the best candidate at the moment.

Re: Why Bitcoin will fail

#23

Post by noncoml »

proofofanalysis wrote: post #21
noncoml wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The incorruptibility of the ledger is the value. It cannot feed me, it cannot protect me from the elements, I cannot grow food on it and is not a tool to help me create something desirable by the others. Hence it has no value.

Bitcoin, being a form of wealth, can give you all the things you just described. That it has no value during an apocalyptic scenario, does not mean it does not have value in the non-apocalyptic times.

You cannot call it wealth to describe its value. You are just saying that the value of it is in itself. Which is what I am supporting as well.

In order for me to exchange it for goods, as you described, there must be someone who has the goods and is willing to exchange them for bitcoin. There is no real reason for someone to do so.

It is not an apocalyptic scenario. That’s what 90% if the population fight for, day in day out. Food, protection from the elements, security.

Re: Why Bitcoin will fail

#24

Post by proofofanalysis »

noncoml wrote: post #23
proofofanalysis wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin, being a form of wealth, can give you all the things you just described. That it has no value during an apocalyptic scenario, does not mean it does not have value in the non-apocalyptic times.

You cannot call it wealth to describe its value. You are just saying that the value of it is in itself. Which is what I am supporting as well. In order for me to exchange it for goods, as you described, there must be someone who has the goods and is willing to exchange them for bitcoin. There is no real reason for someone to do so. It is not an apocalyptic scenario. That’s what 90% if the population fight for, day in…

You are throwing away the possibility that there is an intrinsic value in Bitcoin, more related to socio-economic-political concerns, than survival. There is not only one domain in life.

Re: Why Bitcoin will fail

#26

Post by SerLava »

kintamanimatt wrote: post #17
djsumdog wrote: post #7

The thing about loans, that is borrowed capital that you use to try and create more capital, is that there isn't enough capital to go around. Capitalism does depend on a certain percentages of businesses failing, and that debt being written off. You also can't make loans with BTC because debt needs to be enforceable. There must be violence behind debt. In the past that meant someone turns you into a slave or breaks y…

Debt collectors calling and having your credit score dinged isn’t the definition of violence.

I mean, ultimately if you try to keep your stuff, people will break into your house, beat you, throw you into a cage and lock you in close proximity with rapists.

If you try to keep your stuff and resist them, they will blow your brains out.

Re: Why Bitcoin will fail

#27

Post by MuffinFlavored »

neals wrote: post #14

I've been putting up over 200 of my btc in various loans for over 15 months now. I do this on Bitfinex. It's a double blind loan and can only be used by the receiving party for margin trading. That party has to have maintain a certain reserve to be able to allow an automated stop-loss. This system is fully automated and I've gotten some interesting rates on btc that would otherwise just have been idle.

200 BTC * $15k/BTC = $3,000,000

You have $3m of BTC?

Re: Why Bitcoin will fail

#28

Post by 0x445442 »

djsumdog wrote: post #7

The thing about loans, that is borrowed capital that you use to try and create more capital, is that there isn't enough capital to go around. Capitalism does depend on a certain percentages of businesses failing, and that debt being written off. You also can't make loans with BTC because debt needs to be enforceable. There must be violence behind debt. In the past that meant someone turns you into a slave or breaks y…

Yeah one has to buy into the premise that debt based money is a good thing but I reject that premise.

At least each BTC represents a certain amount of work (in the form of electricity expended) that's already been performed.

Debt is great as long as there is enough work to be performed to square the accounts.

Re: Why Bitcoin will fail

#29

Post by noncoml »

proofofanalysis wrote: post #24
noncoml wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot call it wealth to describe its value. You are just saying that the value of it is in itself. Which is what I am supporting as well. In order for me to exchange it for goods, as you described, there must be someone who has the goods and is willing to exchange them for bitcoin. There is no real reason for someone to do so. It is not an apocalyptic scenario. That’s what 90% if the population fight for, day in…

You are throwing away the possibility that there is an intrinsic value in Bitcoin, more related to socio-economic-political concerns, than survival. There is not only one domain in life.

Ok, cool. We are getting somewhere now. What does Bitcoin offer in that perspective?

Re: Why Bitcoin will fail

#30

Post by [deleted] »

proofofanalysis wrote: post #24
noncoml wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot call it wealth to describe its value. You are just saying that the value of it is in itself. Which is what I am supporting as well. In order for me to exchange it for goods, as you described, there must be someone who has the goods and is willing to exchange them for bitcoin. There is no real reason for someone to do so. It is not an apocalyptic scenario. That’s what 90% if the population fight for, day in…

You are throwing away the possibility that there is an intrinsic value in Bitcoin, more related to socio-economic-political concerns, than survival. There is not only one domain in life.

[deleted]
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