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At Vice, Cutting-Edge Media and Allegations of Old-School Sexual Harassment

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Re: At Vice, Cutting-Edge Media and Allegations of Old-School Sexual Harassment

#81

Post by rayiner »

WalterBright wrote: post #76
torpfactory wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think, in general, that it is totally fine to have company outings, but propositions of any sort should be avoided. You're certainly asking each individual to have self discipline, but in my mind this is a very reasonable expectation. As a rule, everyone should probably avoid relationships at work. If you do decide to have a relationship, do it right and start extremely slowly (i.e. coffee shop date, etc). Feel thi…

> everyone should probably avoid relationships at work That's pretty unrealistic. I recall a statistic that 40% of marriages evolve from office romances. People get into relationships with people they are around.

I don’t know about marriages, but this source says 10% of heterosexual couples met at work (dropping sharply): http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0003122412448050

Re: At Vice, Cutting-Edge Media and Allegations of Old-School Sexual Harassment

#82

Post by torpfactory »

WalterBright wrote: post #76
torpfactory wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think, in general, that it is totally fine to have company outings, but propositions of any sort should be avoided. You're certainly asking each individual to have self discipline, but in my mind this is a very reasonable expectation. As a rule, everyone should probably avoid relationships at work. If you do decide to have a relationship, do it right and start extremely slowly (i.e. coffee shop date, etc). Feel thi…

> everyone should probably avoid relationships at work That's pretty unrealistic. I recall a statistic that 40% of marriages evolve from office romances. People get into relationships with people they are around.

I certainly didn't mean to foreclose the option entirely, but I'd start my search for a serious relationship somewhere other than the office. Remember that office romances can also cause major workplace strife if they don't end well. In any case, I also provided a brief description of how an office relationship (or any one, for that matter) might be done safely.

Re: At Vice, Cutting-Edge Media and Allegations of Old-School Sexual Harassment

#83

Post by heedlessly2 »

BlanketApple wrote: post #8

I'd heard rumors about this at Vice. Glad to see it getting some air. Stories like this are important, because I think the traditional view of sexual harassment is that it happens at JP Morgan, or Exxon, or "stodgy" old companies. People don't think that it can happen at their cool, hip workplace where everyone's woke. But, power is power. Incidentally, and totally based off of a gut reaction and not data: I wonder i…

i've never understood those who think work is an appropriate place to seek romantic relationships. There's an old saying, "You don't shit where you eat"

Re: At Vice, Cutting-Edge Media and Allegations of Old-School Sexual Harassment

#84

Post by scoggs »

BlanketApple wrote: post #8

I'd heard rumors about this at Vice. Glad to see it getting some air. Stories like this are important, because I think the traditional view of sexual harassment is that it happens at JP Morgan, or Exxon, or "stodgy" old companies. People don't think that it can happen at their cool, hip workplace where everyone's woke. But, power is power. Incidentally, and totally based off of a gut reaction and not data: I wonder i…

As a general rule for life I've always made sure to keep anything romantic out of my work life. If there was someone important enough to me that I worked with who I wanted to approach in that sense I'd wait until one of us moved onto another job. I'm not willing to say the vast majority of work related flings and relationships end up in disaster but I'm sure a lot of other people won't say that the majority wind up as fairy tale endings, either.

I'm surprised more people don't live and die by this rule. It's something I decided on as a teen to avoid drama, purely, in my life. It wasn't something constructed from advice from elders or lessons learned through other people's nightmare stories. This idea wasn't constructed for a lifetime of self preservation or to protect something important to me. It was a fairly simple concept about reading the situation and showing respect for everyone involved including co-workers.

Re: At Vice, Cutting-Edge Media and Allegations of Old-School Sexual Harassment

#85

Post by rayiner »

BlanketApple wrote: post #80
Disruptive_Dave wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, think about how much time you spend at work. How close your interactions are with others. We - human beings - are jammed into little 4-walled boxes for the majority of our days with a bunch of people we already have something huge in common with...and told not to get too close with them. It's pretty wild, the whole scenario.

> told not to get too close with them Well, I don't think that's true really. Nobody cares if you're close friends with your co-workers. Many co-workers are close friends. But, I get that you meant romantic relationships. The problem of course being that there's so much negative baggage that often accompanies unsuccessful or unrequited romantic interest, all of it detrimental to the company. For example: If a subordi…

> For example: If a subordinate rejects a superior's advances, and there's even a whiff of unfair treatment (being passed over for promotion, for example), the subordinate has a legitimate grievance that they didn't before

The damage happens the minute the superior makes the advance. Maybe the superior is enlightened and won’t hold a rejection against the subordinate. But how is the subordinate supposed to know that? It puts the subordinate person in an incredibly stressful situation.

And even if the superior thinks they can be objective, is that true? Will the superior continue to treat the subordinate exactly the same, try to mentor and help the subordinate move up in the company? Or will the superior try to decrease contact with the subordinate in order to avoid awkwardness? That robs the subordinate of career opportunities, just because they attracted the eye of a superior. That’s incredibly fucked up.

Re: At Vice, Cutting-Edge Media and Allegations of Old-School Sexual Harassment

#86

Post by BlanketApple »

rayiner wrote: post #85
BlanketApple wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> told not to get too close with them Well, I don't think that's true really. Nobody cares if you're close friends with your co-workers. Many co-workers are close friends. But, I get that you meant romantic relationships. The problem of course being that there's so much negative baggage that often accompanies unsuccessful or unrequited romantic interest, all of it detrimental to the company. For example: If a subordi…

> For example: If a subordinate rejects a superior's advances, and there's even a whiff of unfair treatment (being passed over for promotion, for example), the subordinate has a legitimate grievance that they didn't before The damage happens the minute the superior makes the advance. Maybe the superior is enlightened and won’t hold a rejection against the subordinate. But how is the subordinate supposed to know that?…

All very true. I was more thinking from the company's perspective (who often are the ones overtly discouraging inter-office relationships).

Re: At Vice, Cutting-Edge Media and Allegations of Old-School Sexual Harassment

#87

Post by drchickensalad »

rayiner wrote: post #78
Disruptive_Dave wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, think about how much time you spend at work. How close your interactions are with others. We - human beings - are jammed into little 4-walled boxes for the majority of our days with a bunch of people we already have something huge in common with...and told not to get too close with them. It's pretty wild, the whole scenario.

As a married guy I find this line of thinking hard to understand. “How are we supposed to work so closely with these people without getting ‘too close?’” Uh, I’m not allowed to solicit a date in any context: work, the grocery store, cafes, etc. Somehow I manage, and so do most married people.

It's not that point I read from the parent. It's that they're prime candidates so it's unfortunate to waste that connection. Not that it in any way is hard to resist urges.

Re: At Vice, Cutting-Edge Media and Allegations of Old-School Sexual Harassment

#88

Post by root_axis »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #67
provost wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll criticize Murs as well -- his behavior is also disgusting. However, please leave racial comments out of this.

The three comments here show why behavior like Murs goes not only unaddressed, but unpunished. Rap culture shouldn't be off limits to criticism because of race.

What? Those comments are remarking on your needles injection of race into the discussion, not your criticism of rap culture.

Re: At Vice, Cutting-Edge Media and Allegations of Old-School Sexual Harassment

#89

Post by xkcd-sucks »

rayiner wrote: post #78
Disruptive_Dave wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, think about how much time you spend at work. How close your interactions are with others. We - human beings - are jammed into little 4-walled boxes for the majority of our days with a bunch of people we already have something huge in common with...and told not to get too close with them. It's pretty wild, the whole scenario.

As a married guy I find this line of thinking hard to understand. “How are we supposed to work so closely with these people without getting ‘too close?’” Uh, I’m not allowed to solicit a date in any context: work, the grocery store, cafes, etc. Somehow I manage, and so do most married people.

As a married guy, if your marriage is truly fulfilling, this problem is irrelevant to you.

Given that proximity is the single largest determining factor in romantic partnership, if you work the majority of your time then coworkers will be your most promising dating pool. If you don't work much, you're probably stressed from unemployment. The number of people that have free time to enjoy close proximity with non-coworkers is certainly a minority.

Re: At Vice, Cutting-Edge Media and Allegations of Old-School Sexual Harassment

#90

Post by rdiddly »

heedlessly2 wrote: post #83
BlanketApple wrote: post #8

I'd heard rumors about this at Vice. Glad to see it getting some air. Stories like this are important, because I think the traditional view of sexual harassment is that it happens at JP Morgan, or Exxon, or "stodgy" old companies. People don't think that it can happen at their cool, hip workplace where everyone's woke. But, power is power. Incidentally, and totally based off of a gut reaction and not data: I wonder i…

i've never understood those who think work is an appropriate place to seek romantic relationships. There's an old saying, "You don't shit where you eat"

Those whose attractions to people and whose relationships with them are more akin to shitting will have an easier time remembering and applying that one. Though people for whom that's the case, probably don't care.

Meanwhile those with good intentions and good relationships (even ones that eventually turn to shit) will see nothing at the outset to remind them of the old saw. They don't intend to shit, anywhere.

Also, if we're trying to decide here which primitive need to prioritize (sex vs. food) then sex is going to win every time, because at least for males, it's far more valuable to the species (in the evolutionary selection sense) than his procurement of food. If a male starves to death after passing his genes on, those genes march on, downward through time. (Not that a hapless office drudge and would-be harasser or uncomfortable-maker will necessarily end up passing any genes on, but his sex drive doesn't know that. That drive is pretty dumb in general.)

Still, I agree with your point. Maybe better & more instructive is just to "keep work professional" and leave it at that. Sounds a little dry perhaps. But work should be dry. All these companies that keep demanding "passion" and try to be your mom and best friend and social life all wrapped into one, are asking for trouble. Your life doesn't need to be a Greek myth. Get back to work.

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