How I went from programming to consulting (2012) • Hacker News Board

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#241

Post by walshemj » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 6:40 PM UTC

roel_v wrote: post #223

ivanhoe wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO it's a mistake to focus on his particular fees, that's what he managed to make for himself. You need to find your own realistic path. For instance I, living outside of US, will probably never be able to charge $100+ hour my clients, I'm fully aware of that. But no matter who you are, you probably still can push for a little bit more, and that's where Patrick's advices are solid. Often, it's just a matter of askin…

If you're in Europe and a programming consultant, you can (and should) charge usd100 and more. Like, double, or triple. Edit: actually, first thing you need to do is stop charging by the hour, and charge by the day, or better, by the week.

Certainty in the UK its normally the day rate that is used - though some non tech companies seem to want to get away with paying straight time (ie what a FTE would get) instead of the contractor rate.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#242

Post by dejv » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 6:41 PM UTC

putnam wrote: post #118

taway20171214 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's a management consultant, and the reason they're hired is to provide cover and credibility for both management and your technology team. i.e., "the expensive consultant said it was okay, so don't fire anyone in management, or our technology team, if it goes sideways." in other words, they're actually helping you do your job because they can compare your recommendation to other companies and teams in the industr…

Does something like that exist for software consulting?

Yes, I am not sure how common are those gigs, but I did quite a few projects in development agency. It was usually in situations when projects went bad, I had to examine code structure and timelines to see why it went this way.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#243

Post by derefr » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 6:41 PM UTC

dsacco wrote: post #198

zdw wrote: post #17

Step 1: Be popular/famous enough that people know your name. Step 2: Be good/accurate enough at opining in ways that make sense. Most people won't have either 1 or 2 going for them. There's one more thing - charging a lot is how to signal value, which is a a huge thing. I know a guy who used to manage an A-list rock band (everyone knows their songs) who went into consulting, and started out lowballing people, for $1k…

> Step 1: Be popular/famous enough that people know your name. Step 2: Be good/accurate enough at opining in ways that make sense. Neither of these are prerequisites for being extremely successful at consulting. My consulting rates are now approximately $10,000/week with a 70% annual utilization rate. I'm not industry famous at all. I also do not maintain a blog or do "content marketing." For a while I had no website…

You are industry-famous (or at least have the potential to be), to exactly the degree that "virtually all work comes to me via referrals from past clients."

To put it in more technical terms, your work seemingly has a positive viral coefficient, such that when you do work, it gets you exponentially (if only with a very slightly-above-1.0 exponent) more work. If you just exist in that state for long enough, you eventually get to be a well-known name.

This is what people mean when they say that you "need" to be industry-famous: it's not that you need to be already-well-known, but rather that you need to have the things going for you that cause people to pass your name around, such that you will inevitably become well-known. You need to be "in the process" of being famous; you need to be successfully executing on personal-brand-building. And some people just don't have what it takes to do that.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#244

Post by jaggederest » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 6:42 PM UTC

putnam wrote: post #118

taway20171214 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's a management consultant, and the reason they're hired is to provide cover and credibility for both management and your technology team. i.e., "the expensive consultant said it was okay, so don't fire anyone in management, or our technology team, if it goes sideways." in other words, they're actually helping you do your job because they can compare your recommendation to other companies and teams in the industr…

Does something like that exist for software consulting?

I have done similar work.

I was hired to come in and assess the software that they were developing - they were working with some contractors, some vendors, and a smattering of other people, and wanted to know if their current method was working, how to address some concerns they had, and whether their current vendor was doing a good job.

I discussed it extensively with them, looked over the code and repositories, their current deployment, their backlog, looked at their priorities and basically told them "They seem like they are doing a good job, with the caveat that using contractors and vendors means you will never develop those skills in house, so I would hire at least one competent programmer internally to work with the vendors/contractors you hire, in order to develop that expertise, if you intend to use custom software as a core part of your business on a continuing basis".

This was conveyed via a written report with citations and via a meeting with the C-level executives of the company.

For this review and strategic suggestions they paid me about $1200 for an afternoon's work. That doesn't count time that went into acquiring the gig, scheduling, following up, or billing, just billable hours.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#245

Post by darepublic » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 6:42 PM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #168

Delmania wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people won't have either 1 or 2 going for them. Not at first, no, but even Patrick had to start at zero, right? It's true that there's a lot more personal branding and content marketing going on, but that doesn't mean a person can't execute a similar strategy and find success. It may not be as profitable as it once was, but it can be enough to relieve some financial stress.

>>Not at first, no, but even Patrick had to start at zero, right? More or less everybody starts at 0. I don't exactly mean 0 as absolute nothingness, but some a low enough value of opportunity possible. That's the seed available to you, and from there you have to bootstrap. Of course not every one will make it big in this game. But a sure shot way of going failing, is to not try.

People don't start as nothing, they just exist as identifiably self-contained entities within a finite range of time.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#246

Post by SonicSoul » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 6:43 PM UTC

kleiba wrote: post #57

To this day, I'm still not quite clear about what a consultant actually does. I mean, beyond some vague idea ("goes to some company, talks with people, gives some recommendation"). I'd really love for someone to give some example or describe in a tangible way what the work of a consultant entails, what skills one typically needs and actually employs, what a typical gig looks like from beginning to end and so on. If a…

my friend just transitioned and his way was actually quite ingenious. He worked with someone who went to a different company, and that person tried to bring him on as full time role. He interviewed and got the offer but instead of taking it, he proposed that he will develop this whole thing on his own time for $x. Since he had enough good reputation for delivering he got the contract and the company even worked with him on setting up the payment via intermediary consulting firm until he had his own system setup for that (this will vary from company to company depending on their list of approved vendors etc). They initially let him work out of their space but he eventually rented a co-working office. It's been over a year and the relationship is working out, and he's hired a team in Argentina that he manages and keeps taking on more work. The pre-requisite here was that he had good reputation in his old co, but I would guess that having people like/respect your work is a good indicator of if you should start consulting in the first place.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#247

Post by aurelianito » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 6:45 PM UTC

If you charge by week, how do you keep your consulting pipeline full? Do you engage in contract negotiations while working for someone else?

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#248

Post by ZenoArrow » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 6:45 PM UTC

borplk wrote: post #179

ZenoArrow wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "The point is if you ignore this or don't understand it you are going to be disappointed." You can recognise it exists whilst still being disappointed that it exists. Someone I work with suggested "Perception is the only reality", which seems to fit here.

> You can recognise it exists whilst still being disappointed that it exists. Yep. To me an interesting contrast to what I said is Bitcoin. It has legs of its own to stand on and therefore does not need to borrow credibility from the author. Imagine if books and blog posts and movies and art work didn't have the author/creator next to it. Interesting to think how people's reactions would change.

> "Imagine if books and blog posts and movies and art work didn't have the author/creator next to it. Interesting to think how people's reactions would change."

I find this interesting too.

Generally speaking, people are drawn to creating narratives about the world around them. I'd suggest that even if the creators of art become nameless/faceless, the vacuum would get filled by a cult of personality around taste makers. For example, in the world of electronic dance music there's a high volume of music producers without public recognition. However, the DJs that play this music then become the "face" for this music, and it's their reputation which is more prominent than many of the artists making the music.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#249

Post by Steeeve » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 6:45 PM UTC

Addressing several of the threads here:

If you're doing contract development that can be done half as well for a quarter of the cost by an offshore team, you are not doing consulting. You are competing in an arena that you will never be able to win.

If you want to consult for good money, you have to create your market and you have to have the confidence of that market. You have to be able to give C-level execs advice that they want in a language they understand to solve the problems that they deem important. The vertical market is just as important as the horizontal one. In other words, a CRM expert is generally valuable. A CRM expert that can provide technical, management, and executive strategy solutions in the healthcare space is extraordinarily valuable. The very strong technical guy can be worth $2-300 an hour if he knows the right software and knows enough to put himself in the right position. The vendor that has brand recognition and a consulting team built around their product is worth more. The consultant who knows the ins and outs of the vendor relationships and how they fit into the big picture of solving the customer relationship problem and can throw together a comprehensive multi-year strategy that differentiates the client from their competition and will have a positive effect on the stock and market position is the consultant that makes good money.

You don't get to be that guy by being the best developer or by having a history at one of the big three. You work your way up the ladder, make a difference, and then offer that difference to someone in a parallel position. You build out a team, a strategy, and a marketing plan that puts you in a position to drive.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#250

Post by aerovistae » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 6:45 PM UTC

The problem with patio11's blogs is that he seems to exist in a different world from most programmers, I feel.

> So $100 per hour, even though it is not a market rate for e.g. intermediate Ruby on Rails programmers

Uh, $100 an hour is $208,000 annually full-time. Unless Patrick is referring exclusively to the Bay Area upper crust, I don't know how he reaches the conclusion that $100 an hour is "not even market rate for intermediate programmers."