How I went from programming to consulting (2012) • Hacker News Board

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#181

Post by user5994461 » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:37 PM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #61

mgkimsal wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spot on. I've been in some situations where I've been 'hired', but the people I have to work with didn't know, or didn't want me there, or were generally antagonistic (usually they weren't consulted at all). Client may end up paying the bill, but they're getting so little value out of what I've done it's... painful. But it's often painful just to be working at some of those companies too (whether as insider or outsid…

How does it usually work out in the end? Does that hurt you in the sense that they'll blame you anyway, or help because you got more hours in. Not a consultant but would list or report what time was spent on and they'd see line items like "waited on having accounts set up by IT for 2 days"

In the end you get paid as usual.

The company didn't get much value but they probably don't get much value out of their employees or anything they do. Doesn't matter, you are not here to change the world, they don't want you to change their world.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#182

Post by pjmlp » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:37 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #123

rdtsc wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does it usually work out in the end? Does that hurt you in the sense that they'll blame you anyway, or help because you got more hours in. Not a consultant but would list or report what time was spent on and they'd see line items like "waited on having accounts set up by IT for 2 days"

I don't always keep detailed time logs, but would take notes on situations like that, where there were significant delays caused by something outside my control. Not showing up on an invoice, but using those notes, I'd have a meeting with someone higher up (if there was no traction from trying to work with the people on the ground). In most cases, those situations haven't worked out well, but it seems nothing does. T…

I've learned to always keep such logs, in some gigs even down to minutes.

They can come really handy if the fire brigade comes in when invoices start getting discussed.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#183

Post by putnam » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:39 PM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #161

putnam wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. Do you think that someone who is good at writing software can not learn to market themselves to become well known?

Some can, some can't, but realistically, even if everyone were turning out articles as good as Steve Yegge's they couldn't all achieve the same name recognition. If you want another example look at mobile app stores. Surely there were thousands of games just as good as Flappy Bird that you've never heard of.

Who is Steve Yegge?

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#184

Post by mgkimsal » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:39 PM UTC

putnam wrote: post #127

mgkimsal wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but you've got to wonder what goes through the head of business owners who would rather pay high consultant fees than invest in extra staff and training for their in-house team, which is frequently better for the long term health of a company For large companies, division managers are more concerned about short term goals, because that's usually what metrics are in place, but also potentially competitive landscape,…

Have you done consulting jobs where you never set foot in the office?

Yes.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#185

Post by user5994461 » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:39 PM UTC

putnam wrote: post #109

Ascetik wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has happened to me as well. It's because whoever hired the consultant hadn't forced anyone to do those tasks. It's their own fault really. I recently did some consulting for a Veeam configuration and it took a good 12 hours to get them to set me up a VPN and get access to all the servers I needed to review their setup. Should have been ready from the get-go.

Do you think they cared that you spent 12 hours on setup?

Of course not!

If they cared, it would be handled or they wouldn't use consultants.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#186

Post by mcguire » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:40 PM UTC

BeetleB wrote: post #151

mgkimsal wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP, but my own experience is that it's a more uncommon skill than I first thought. I know plenty of skilled developers, but only a handful have a combination of business savvy and enough social skills and graces to be able to talk to a variety of people in business settings without ... hosing it up somehow. I'm not at all saying all 'consultants' are great at this either - 'consultants' work for 'big 5' firms…

>I know plenty of skilled developers, but only a handful have a combination of business savvy and enough social skills and graces to be able to talk to a variety of people in business settings without ... hosing it up somehow. Of course most are like that: How much effort did they put in to become skilled developers, and how much on the business savvy? I'm guessing years on the former, and perhaps hours on the latter…

Then there's that old joke about getting a girlfriend and having your .emacs go to shit.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#187

Post by putnam » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:41 PM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #168

Delmania wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people won't have either 1 or 2 going for them. Not at first, no, but even Patrick had to start at zero, right? It's true that there's a lot more personal branding and content marketing going on, but that doesn't mean a person can't execute a similar strategy and find success. It may not be as profitable as it once was, but it can be enough to relieve some financial stress.

>>Not at first, no, but even Patrick had to start at zero, right? More or less everybody starts at 0. I don't exactly mean 0 as absolute nothingness, but some a low enough value of opportunity possible. That's the seed available to you, and from there you have to bootstrap. Of course not every one will make it big in this game. But a sure shot way of going failing, is to not try.

Are you a consultant?

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#188

Post by mgkimsal » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:41 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #182

mgkimsal wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't always keep detailed time logs, but would take notes on situations like that, where there were significant delays caused by something outside my control. Not showing up on an invoice, but using those notes, I'd have a meeting with someone higher up (if there was no traction from trying to work with the people on the ground). In most cases, those situations haven't worked out well, but it seems nothing does. T…

I've learned to always keep such logs, in some gigs even down to minutes. They can come really handy if the fire brigade comes in when invoices start getting discussed.

Some projects I do want some product I don't. If I think at the very beginning that I have to do that, I'm already thinking I'm in a potentially bad/adversarial project.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#189

Post by oblio » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:41 PM UTC

k__ wrote: post #149

blhack wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. "Consultant" seems to be essentially synonymous with "contractor" or "freelancer". They come in to do a specific job, then leave.

Consultant is simply perceived higher value than freelancer or contractor. Since I started selling myself as a "Mobile Consultant" I made significantly more money than selling myself as a "Front-End Developer", "Freelance Developer" or such. Seemingly it's all in the wording these days.

It was always in the wording :)

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#190

Post by ZenoArrow » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:41 PM UTC

taway20171214 wrote: post #88

dleslie wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having been in a position where a consultant was foisted upon me by management, at several different companies, near as I can tell they are paid huge sums to restate what the team already knows and has been saying needs to be done. Only they provide it with an approach and language which management can understand.

that's a management consultant, and the reason they're hired is to provide cover and credibility for both management and your technology team. i.e., "the expensive consultant said it was okay, so don't fire anyone in management, or our technology team, if it goes sideways." in other words, they're actually helping you do your job because they can compare your recommendation to other companies and teams in the industr…

The issue you're overlooking is that these management consultants are being paid large fees for information that a company can get for free just by listening to their existing employees. However, that's not a slight on the management consultants themselves (nice work if you can get it), but is a slight on companies that don't trust that their employees can give them sound advice. Problems at the ground level are going to become apparent earliest to those working at that level, if you ignore that feedback you're potentially throwing away valuable information.