How I went from programming to consulting (2012) • Hacker News Board

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#151

Post by BeetleB » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:16 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #143

putnam wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. Do you think that someone who is good at writing software can not learn to market themselves to become well known?

Not the OP, but my own experience is that it's a more uncommon skill than I first thought. I know plenty of skilled developers, but only a handful have a combination of business savvy and enough social skills and graces to be able to talk to a variety of people in business settings without ... hosing it up somehow. I'm not at all saying all 'consultants' are great at this either - 'consultants' work for 'big 5' firms…

>I know plenty of skilled developers, but only a handful have a combination of business savvy and enough social skills and graces to be able to talk to a variety of people in business settings without ... hosing it up somehow.

Of course most are like that: How much effort did they put in to become skilled developers, and how much on the business savvy? I'm guessing years on the former, and perhaps hours on the latter?

It's not that people can't develop those skills. It's that few want to, or realize that they have to.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#152

Post by shanemhansen » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:17 PM UTC

putnam wrote: post #2

I have an Internet buddy in Chicago named Thomas Ptacek. [...] I decided to invite Thomas out to coffee. At the end of the conversation, Thomas said something which, no exaggeration, changed my life. Thomas: Some food for thought: If this hadn't been a coffee date, but rather a consulting engagement, I'd be writing you a check right now. Me: Three hours at $100 an hour or whatever an intermediate programmer is worth…

People on my linkedin talk to each other that way. It's bizarre how wannabe "coaches" talk.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#153

Post by borplk » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:18 PM UTC

valuearb wrote: post #104

ZenoArrow wrote: post #49

Consulting fees certainly make the work more attractive than it would otherwise be, and I have been tempted to go down this path before. That aside, part of me thinks that the culture around consulting is masking bigger problems. I've seen consultants being brought onto projects where the main development staff would've been better placed to do the work (more knowledge about the intricacies of a business, better awar…

In my case my company has a terrible product development process, and it’s a big reason why our app sucks, it doesn’t deliver the key value customers and the company need. I have said as much to everyone up to the VP level, and provided detailed recommendations (I am a Sr Dev, but in prior jobs I successfully managed dev groups of 40+ people). The response I’ve gotten has been coaching on delivery (stop being so blun…

A huge huge part of it is just persona, profile, reputation and perception.

A fancy consultant with a laundry list of "credentials" will be automatically trusted.

When Joe Schmoe developer says the same thing it will be dismissed.

You can see a variation of this happen with books, particularly self-help books.

A nobody author writes lots of valuable stuff and people flick through it and go mehhh.

A famous self-help personality writes a pretentious 50 page book rehashing cliches (probably actually written by someone else) and give it a title like "the pink monkey that was red" and it will "blow up" because everyone talks about it.

Nothing wrong with that. That's the game, I get it.

The point is if you ignore this or don't understand it you are going to be disappointed.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#154

Post by speby » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:18 PM UTC

putnam wrote: post #2

I have an Internet buddy in Chicago named Thomas Ptacek. [...] I decided to invite Thomas out to coffee. At the end of the conversation, Thomas said something which, no exaggeration, changed my life. Thomas: Some food for thought: If this hadn't been a coffee date, but rather a consulting engagement, I'd be writing you a check right now. Me: Three hours at $100 an hour or whatever an intermediate programmer is worth…

Value received (perceived or real) does not necessarily equate to the amount of real dollars a customer would have been otherwise willing to pay.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#155

Post by k__ » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:19 PM UTC

putnam wrote: post #2

I have an Internet buddy in Chicago named Thomas Ptacek. [...] I decided to invite Thomas out to coffee. At the end of the conversation, Thomas said something which, no exaggeration, changed my life. Thomas: Some food for thought: If this hadn't been a coffee date, but rather a consulting engagement, I'd be writing you a check right now. Me: Three hours at $100 an hour or whatever an intermediate programmer is worth…

Yes.

But there are different levels.

You don't have to be good enough to convince the CEO of Microsoft to make good money.

There are many many more small companies that still can give you good money and are more easily convinced.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#156

Post by s73ver_ » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:20 PM UTC

mathgeek wrote: post #60

an_account wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you get your start freelancing?

Not OP, but the answer to this is almost always "network with people who will pay you to freelance." This assumes you already have the skills/knowledge worth paying a freelancer for.

I always hate that answer, because it doesn't actually answer the "how".

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#157

Post by fnbr » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:21 PM UTC

ivanhoe wrote: post #129

zdw wrote: post #17

Step 1: Be popular/famous enough that people know your name. Step 2: Be good/accurate enough at opining in ways that make sense. Most people won't have either 1 or 2 going for them. There's one more thing - charging a lot is how to signal value, which is a a huge thing. I know a guy who used to manage an A-list rock band (everyone knows their songs) who went into consulting, and started out lowballing people, for $1k…

IMO it's a mistake to focus on his particular fees, that's what he managed to make for himself. You need to find your own realistic path. For instance I, living outside of US, will probably never be able to charge $100+ hour my clients, I'm fully aware of that. But no matter who you are, you probably still can push for a little bit more, and that's where Patrick's advices are solid. Often, it's just a matter of askin…

It's very doable to find remote consulting/freelance work. I'm in a region of Canada where the goal freelance/consulting rates for software engineers are well below $100/hour, and I could regularly find remote consulting work in the US around the $100/hour mark .

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#158

Post by borplk » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:23 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #131

putnam wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think there are 1-5 person companies doing millions annually with an ecom site?

There are definitely small ( Margins matter too, not just headcount. Someone could do $2m/year but make less than someone doing $800k/year with better margins. Doing perf/security reviews of a niche like that (woo, magento, etc) would probably still be a place to focus and make money, if you want to stay 'back end' (or at least technical). But even then, some of the measurable stuff will be needed - "we reduced the l…

Security stuff is notoriously difficult for demonstrating any kind of value.

99% don't care unless and until they get hacked, they will also forget about it all in 2 months.

If they don't get hacked for years they will just attribute that to luck and probability, not valuable security consulting.

And if they do... you can guess that one.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#159

Post by mathgeek » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:23 PM UTC

s73ver_ wrote: post #156

mathgeek wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but the answer to this is almost always "network with people who will pay you to freelance." This assumes you already have the skills/knowledge worth paying a freelancer for.

I always hate that answer, because it doesn't actually answer the "how".

How so? If one asks how they find a traditional job, "look for people who are hiring people like you" is an accepted answer. Same difference, no?

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#160

Post by fenier » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 5:23 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #47

> Long story short: programmers can do things which meaningfully affect marketing outcomes And... while much of it's been said before... if you call yourself a programmer, very likely you won't be at the table when decisions about marketing are made in the first place. Might even be on the page linked above, but one of patio11's big suggestions is not to call yourself a programmer. I probably still use the label for…

Agreed. It's hard to make that jump.