Tiananmen Square 1989 death toll was at least 10,000 according to UK documents • Hacker News Board

Re: Tiananmen Square 1989 death toll was at least 10,000 according to UK documents

#111

Post by mutteraloo » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 4:35 PM UTC

Dolores12 wrote: post #93

mutteraloo wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe you're just under their marketing and propaganda. here are some things the authoritarian government did just this year - China puts a freeze on burning coal, leaving millions of families shivering in the cold http://shanghaiist.com/2017/12/05/coal-ban.php - China Blowing Major Bubbles In 2017 https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2016/12/19/china-bubb... - In locked-down Xinjiang, China is tracking kitchen…

> - China puts a freeze on burning coal, leaving millions of families shivering in the cold http://shanghaiist.com/2017/12/05/coal-ban.php Love your arguments like this. How about the ban allows everyone to breath fresh air during winter instead of byproducts of coal burning? Omg, few families is going to be shivers. Many more will thank its government for that step. You are welcome to visit Beijing to experience con…

Or you know, the government could just stop the polluting factories from polluting

Re: Tiananmen Square 1989 death toll was at least 10,000 according to UK documents

#112

Post by intro-b » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 4:35 PM UTC

mutteraloo wrote: post #50

zizek23 wrote: post #45

In a previous naive world intoxicated by dreams of global citizenry and humanism it would be easy to get sanctimonious and posture about evil. But cultural divides are real and are not going away. And these kind of events and stories simply become opportunities to target other countries weaknesses, reassert a jingoistic sense of superiority and perpetuate existing comfort zones. Or there would be protests daily in we…

There's a very easy way anyone can start fighting against a brutal regime like this: Stop buying stuff from China. Just stop. Support local made.

"Stop buying things from [x]" probably hasn't been an effective mantra for several decades. The U.S., E.U., China, Japan, and other nations are all intractably linked in the global supply chain economy.

Re: Tiananmen Square 1989 death toll was at least 10,000 according to UK documents

#113

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 4:35 PM UTC

glenstein wrote: post #88

Fricken wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of the people involved in the decision to use violence against the Tiananmen square protesters are still in power. Who is it exactly that we should never forgive forever ? And where are we going to find the energy to hold this grudge along with all the other unforgivable acts throughout history given that we're already so poor, exhausted, distracted and confused?

>Who is it exactly that we should never forgive forever? For starters, whoever decides to delete references to Tiananmen from the Chinese internet, and the surrounding bureaucratic system that permits (or probably demands) it to happen. Whoever orders the media to omit reference to it every anniversary. Whoever continues to order that parents and/or spouses of the victims are placed under house arrest or removed from…

[deleted]

Re: Tiananmen Square 1989 death toll was at least 10,000 according to UK documents

#114

Post by mutteraloo » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 4:36 PM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #98

tanilama wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China represents an existential crisis for some by itself, as a country ignores many fundamental pillars of western society, which have been theorized for half a century to offer an explanation for its own success, yet it so far has achieved much more than expected to be. Although I think China needs to credit much of its success to western ideas, but it doesn't accept all of them, it takes what it needs and rejects…

China needs to attribute its advancement to 3 generations of technocrat administrations, nothing else. When a man with brains is on the top, big things do happen. Now there is Xi, a semiliterate * who spent his youth as a pig rearer. Not a bright talent he is.

Nope. China can attribute that to cheating and lying through wto, which now us japan and eu are now stopping. Also to massive investments brought by.....guess who....evil western forces

Re: Tiananmen Square 1989 death toll was at least 10,000 according to UK documents

#115

Post by intro-b » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 4:36 PM UTC

tomlock wrote: post #2

I wonder if Altman bought this up when he was in China.

Altman, Zuckerburg, et al appear to be happy to kowtow a lot in hopes of a little glimpse of that fabled market penetration.

Re: Tiananmen Square 1989 death toll was at least 10,000 according to UK documents

#116

Post by plandis » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 4:37 PM UTC

codeproject wrote: post #51

This story is fake. I was there. Hard to believe this, I didn't see anyone dead in the Tiananmen Square. We were at Square. The soldiers surrended us. The soldiers shouted, "Get out of square". People were very emotional. Some wanted to stay and others wanted to leave. We heard that student leaders, Liu XiaoBo (who is awarded 2009 Nobel peace prize for this effort) was elected to negotiate with the troop commander. L…

Hello,

I downvoted you because you are best case ignorant, or worst case trying to cover this up. I suggest you read through Amnesty Internationals documentation about the incident.

Re: Tiananmen Square 1989 death toll was at least 10,000 according to UK documents

#117

Post by mutteraloo » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 4:39 PM UTC

rorykoehler wrote: post #105

mutteraloo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they prop up dictatorships in Iran, Pakistan, North Korea, Burma, Zimbabwe, Sudan, Venezuela

America and the UK have a track record of propping up plenty of dictatorships too which is fairly odd for supposed democratic ideologues.

Whataboutusm. The adults are talking about China

Re: Tiananmen Square 1989 death toll was at least 10,000 according to UK documents

#118

Post by b6 » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 4:39 PM UTC

mutteraloo wrote: post #50

zizek23 wrote: post #45

In a previous naive world intoxicated by dreams of global citizenry and humanism it would be easy to get sanctimonious and posture about evil. But cultural divides are real and are not going away. And these kind of events and stories simply become opportunities to target other countries weaknesses, reassert a jingoistic sense of superiority and perpetuate existing comfort zones. Or there would be protests daily in we…

There's a very easy way anyone can start fighting against a brutal regime like this: Stop buying stuff from China. Just stop. Support local made.

Have you lived in China? Your suggestion, if taken seriously by a lot of people, would just further harm ordinary Chinese people who are already being harmed by a parasitic government over which they have no control.

Re: Tiananmen Square 1989 death toll was at least 10,000 according to UK documents

#119

Post by DanielBMarkham » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 4:40 PM UTC

Want to see corruption in the U.S.? Take a look at your news feed.

I went to several major U.S. websites and didn't find any mention of this story at all. I can find plenty of Trump stories, but zero coverage of what in any sane world would be a major news event.

There's some really good discussion here around what to think of China. I love the Chinese. I'll let others debate what this says about their country and way of life. But this many people being killed in a public and brutal fashion in recent memory by a major world government? The country has nothing to do with it. This is a significant historical fact and it's major new information about a controversial and shocking story from just a few decades ago.

So why no coverage? My guess is that it's about money -- embarrass the Chinese and they'll hurt you in the wallet. But that's just my guess.

Re: Tiananmen Square 1989 death toll was at least 10,000 according to UK documents

#120

Post by yorwba » Sat, Dec 23, 2017, 4:41 PM UTC

Dolores12 wrote: post #93

mutteraloo wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe you're just under their marketing and propaganda. here are some things the authoritarian government did just this year - China puts a freeze on burning coal, leaving millions of families shivering in the cold http://shanghaiist.com/2017/12/05/coal-ban.php - China Blowing Major Bubbles In 2017 https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2016/12/19/china-bubb... - In locked-down Xinjiang, China is tracking kitchen…

> - China puts a freeze on burning coal, leaving millions of families shivering in the cold http://shanghaiist.com/2017/12/05/coal-ban.php Love your arguments like this. How about the ban allows everyone to breath fresh air during winter instead of byproducts of coal burning? Omg, few families is going to be shivers. Many more will thank its government for that step. You are welcome to visit Beijing to experience con…

If the ban had been such a great idea, why did they roll it back? Banning coal before the alternative (gas heating) was ready is just a classic example of ruling top-down without concern for side-effects.

Democracies are not immune to that, of course, but the effects are exacerbated when nobody dares to point out obvious flaws like that to avoid embarrassing the leadership.