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How the Rohingya Escaped

nytimes.com

51–60 of 78 posts

Re: How the Rohingya Escaped

#51
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s an extremely simplistic way of seeing it though. The Rohingya were simple people, mostly poor, and lived in Myanmar for generations; religion would be a code of life for them, not a political tool. It’s likely the opposite for the monks and their followers though; Buddhism is about peace, fundamentally and (in nearly all cases) in practice. My patience with Aung San Suu Kyi has run out completely. Too little s…

>Buddhism is about peace, fundamentally and (in nearly all cases) in practice. There's a slight subtlety to this. Buddhist ethics are very different to Judeo-Christian ethics. The Buddhist equivalent to "thou shalt not kill" is the first of the five precepts, "panatipata veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami", which loosely translates to "I undertake the rule of training to refrain from killing living beings". This is not…

> Although the vast majority of Buddhists condemn the ethnic cleansing of the Rohingya, it is not intrinsically incompatible with Buddhist ethics.

For the level of Buddhism practiced in this area (Theravada) it is incompatible, there’s clearly nothing good that can come from it. They were clearly taught not to do this, there’s no ambiguity.

Additionally monks have no authority, they are not saints or have even the slightest clue about anything, anyone can put on a robe and be a monk. This isn’t understood in the West, where a monk is considered to be a title, but it’s really a zero, like saying your child got into pre-school.

Re: How the Rohingya Escaped

#52

We are failing refugees the world over. This is heartbreaking, and so is the situation in Syria, in South Sudan, in Eritrea, and in countless other places. And I don't feel like we're getting any better and we're certainly doing no better at preventing these crises. With the world getting more crowded, is there an end in sight? This piece reminded me a bit of the self-recorded documentary of a Syrian woman trying to…

And Yemen. The US cannot solve every conflict in the world but I wish it would atleast stand up against the thhird party countries that backs vile murderous regimes. Russia in Syria and China in Myanmar (and they are also starting to influence other countries in Asia). We, the oppressed peopleof this world, needs a stronger US. Not the one retreating as under Trump.

[deleted]

Re: How the Rohingya Escaped

#53
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

an adjective and distinction which changes what, exactly?

Religion is at least somewhat of a personal choice. You can't change your ethnicity. It's the difference between hating people for exercising their freedom of religion vs hating people for being born.

I see

Re: How the Rohingya Escaped

#54

Writing this on my iPad so excuse my spelling errors: There is so much evil in this world, what the Rohingya face today my own people endured in 2009. At the hands of thr Sri Lankan government, who also happens to be buddhistic, ten thousands of innocent Tamils were massacred. Women and children raped. Babies murdered. The UN wrote a huge report findng the Sri Lankan government guilty only for China and Russia to vet…

Unfortunately, most Americans don't understand that people may perceive them and our government this way.

To be honest with you, at least in my memory of news coverage from the 90s until the war ended, there was very little if any notice of your civil war or the plight of the people. The most attention Sri Lankans might have gotten from average Americans were either post-tsunami (even then, more focused on Thailand and Indonesia) or when MIA broke onto the music scene (a very small demographic).

I've been to parts of the world where 'USA' was used as graffiti and people loved us because of what we had done for them but the average American would be hard-pressed to identify what we saved them from, if even the where the country is.

There are massive arguments for isolationism once more in the country, and ceding both soft and hard power to other countries. Many people don't understand the good we have done in the world, as well as the bad.

You are definitely barking up the wrong tree if you think the current administration would have any interest but their own at heart.

Re: How the Rohingya Escaped

#55
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

an adjective and distinction which changes what, exactly?

Religion is at least somewhat of a personal choice. You can't change your ethnicity. It's the difference between hating people for exercising their freedom of religion vs hating people for being born.

Freedom of religion is extremely notional in much of the world. How do you propose that 99.99% of Rohingya would realistically have the freedom to explore and choose a religion other than their own? Not to mention that their ethnicity is only really debated by the majority who have traditionally treated them like dirt, and are now driving them out.

Not to mention that Judaism already sets a fine precedent for the massive gray area between ethnicity and religion, just for a familiar example.

Re: How the Rohingya Escaped

#56
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Buddhism is about peace, fundamentally and (in nearly all cases) in practice. There's a slight subtlety to this. Buddhist ethics are very different to Judeo-Christian ethics. The Buddhist equivalent to "thou shalt not kill" is the first of the five precepts, "panatipata veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami", which loosely translates to "I undertake the rule of training to refrain from killing living beings". This is not…

> Although the vast majority of Buddhists condemn the ethnic cleansing of the Rohingya, it is not intrinsically incompatible with Buddhist ethics. For the level of Buddhism practiced in this area (Theravada) it is incompatible, there’s clearly nothing good that can come from it. They were clearly taught not to do this, there’s no ambiguity. Additionally monks have no authority, they are not saints or have even the sl…

What makes you think monks have no authority? I haven't been to Burma but I've been to Thailand which also practices theravada and monks are given an extreme amount of deference. You aren't supposed to talk back to them, when giving food in the morning to the monks you are supposed to bow and not make eye contact, monks are even included with pregnant women and the disabled as people with reserved seating on public transportation. The airports had many seats showing that they were for the elderly, pregnant, or monks only regardless of the monks age.

The locals did seem to treat it as more deference to the station than the person, I met someone who had been a monk and quit three times and his family treated him as a monk when he was a monk and as a regular guy when he wasn't. Beyond all that there are still obvious cults of personality where different monks gain a following that can be quite fervent.

Re: How the Rohingya Escaped

#57
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that the military did this, not the civil government.

Well, there's "doing it" and being complicit in it. She called the reports "fake news." The administration won't pronounce the word Rohingya because they deny that the people are an ethnic group. Merely being accessory to genocide and not actually an instigator of it doesn't seem better. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-41170570

She doesn't just calls it "fake news", but also calls the Rohingya "terrorists", according to that article.

Re: How the Rohingya Escaped

#58
post #56
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Although the vast majority of Buddhists condemn the ethnic cleansing of the Rohingya, it is not intrinsically incompatible with Buddhist ethics. For the level of Buddhism practiced in this area (Theravada) it is incompatible, there’s clearly nothing good that can come from it. They were clearly taught not to do this, there’s no ambiguity. Additionally monks have no authority, they are not saints or have even the sl…

What makes you think monks have no authority? I haven't been to Burma but I've been to Thailand which also practices theravada and monks are given an extreme amount of deference. You aren't supposed to talk back to them, when giving food in the morning to the monks you are supposed to bow and not make eye contact, monks are even included with pregnant women and the disabled as people with reserved seating on public t…

It's simply because they have zero realization, that's not what the title means. Also evident in the article, they're clearly clueless.

What you're seeing in Thailand is respect for Buddhism itself, and a way to keep people interested in Buddhism. In Buddhism there are levels of realization, and a monk is a zero on that scale. Not sure how else to clarify. There are other titles, normally translated as Venerable, which should indicate at least some modest level of accomplishment. But to cite a monk as having any idea at all is fantasy, you just put on a robe, and anyone is suddenly a monk, no education or knowledge required, let alone realization.

Re: How the Rohingya Escaped

#59
This is horrible . But has anyone wondered why in all such cases today muslims are involved , Muslims vs muslims ( Syria...) , muslims vs Hindus , Muslims vs Christians , Muslims vs apostates , muslims vs Jews ,Muslims vs Buddhists , muslims vs Communists ( China uighurs),muslims vs Atheists. Thhere is something in it .

Re: How the Rohingya Escaped

#60
post #47
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've got that the wrong way around - >This has led many Buddhists to consider the Rohingya to be Bengali, rejecting the term Rohingya as a recent invention, created for political reasons. ( http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/08/rohingya-m... )

It would be interesting to see a candid interview with what the real reason for not liking then is. I suspect it’s rooted in the Muslim conquests which are still mentioned in Buddhist texts. Needless to say the Muslim religion is not held in much regard due to that, as opposed to Hinduism which is considered worthy of debating.

The problem is that this reaction is at least somewhat understandable.

It may have something to do with how muslims treat buddhists (or any non-muslims), near Myanmar ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Banglad...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Pakista... (note: relevant because Pakistan used to be a neighbouring country to Myanmar/Burma)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_India

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India (you can argue which side instigated this ... except not really ... the issue started with the basic idea, pushed by muslims that muslims cannot live in a state they do not control (which is of course a rule in Sharia) ... and ended with somewhere between 2 and 10 million deaths, and that number is ignoring the fact that about 8 million Hindus that were in Pakistan in 1951 have "somehow" dropped to less than 2 million today despite very strong population growth)

But back to Myanmar, given the above backdrop, then this happens:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohingya_insurgency_in_Western...

So whilst this is a very serious insurgency, can please establish in this discussion that:

1) the Rohingya are not looking for peace. They're trying to conquer (the land where they are a majority, but still they're trying to conquer it). That is the big source of tensions. This is a failed conquest, not an unprovoked ethnic/racist conflict.

2) the Rohingya islamist separatists have attempted to massacre Burmese cities. They have (thankfully) only failed attempts at a large scale massacre to show for it, but there is no doubting their intent, and there were plenty of victims (dozens to hundreds, depending on what numbers you believe).

3) the immediate cause of this conflict (the match that lit the fire) was a synchronized attack on 24 police stations in the state, resulting in the deaths of 24 police officers. This attack was perpetrated weeks after a Rohingya group of youngsters decided to murder a young woman (for reasons that probably had nothing to do with religion or ethnicity, but the event incited sectarian clashes).

Here's a wild thoery. This whole situation was an attempt by islamist separatist forces in Myanmar to create an ethnic conflict, because they believed it could result in their own state, or in an annexation of their region into Bangladesh. So they incite the riots, execute terror attacks, and attack the authorities in Myanmar, in very quick succession.

One slight issue: the conflict did not go their way.

And yes, this totally sucks for everyone. Most of all for the Rohingya themselves, but it really, really sucks for everyone. Every side in this conflict has hundreds of dead, and incredible damage inflicted that will take decades to rebuild.

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