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Max Ogden steps down as Dat project lead over sex abuse allegations

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Re: Max Ogden steps down as Dat project lead over sex abuse allegations

#2
Here is the Twitter thread that started this: https://twitter.com/jllord/status/941033391750819845

And here's Max's statement: https://medium.com/@maxogden/statement-to-the-community-c835.... The first version, which did not include any specific actions, and to a certain degree engaged in victim blaming, is here: https://imgur.com/zbiz1Hi

Note how "pressure and expectations [that were] not sensitive to her needs and experiences" turned into "sexual abuse, coercion, and controlling behavior".

But, ultimately, Max Ogden seems to have found his way to dealing with these accusations with something not entirely unlike integrity. Without knowing any specifics, I can only hope his ex-partner can find some degree of healing in it, and find a community that will support her.

And, while I feel somewhat dirty including this in such proximity to wishing his victim well, it is worthy to remember that human lives, and especially relationships, are often messy. We have all made our fair share of mistakes, and their magnitude may often have been limited more by circumstances: good friends stepping in, or sheer luck. It must, and should, be painful to suddenly be woken up and realise the pain you've caused. But Max seems to be a rather young guy. And, contrary to popular opinion, it is in no ones' interest to see his life ruined.

We have created an internet that doesn't forget. Let's see if we can handle its results. Not by forgetting. But, within reason, by forgiving.

Re: Max Ogden steps down as Dat project lead over sex abuse allegations

#3
post #2

Here is the Twitter thread that started this: https://twitter.com/jllord/status/941033391750819845 And here's Max's statement: https://medium.com/@maxogden/statement-to-the-community-c835... . The first version, which did not include any specific actions, and to a certain degree engaged in victim blaming, is here: https://imgur.com/zbiz1Hi Note how "pressure and expectations [that were] not sensitive to her needs and…

[deleted]

Re: Max Ogden steps down as Dat project lead over sex abuse allegations

#4
post #2

Here is the Twitter thread that started this: https://twitter.com/jllord/status/941033391750819845 And here's Max's statement: https://medium.com/@maxogden/statement-to-the-community-c835... . The first version, which did not include any specific actions, and to a certain degree engaged in victim blaming, is here: https://imgur.com/zbiz1Hi Note how "pressure and expectations [that were] not sensitive to her needs and…

[deleted]

Re: Max Ogden steps down as Dat project lead over sex abuse allegations

#6
Why do people keep apologizing publicly? Do they actually think that helps?

For all you guys that are interested in a key insight: once dealing w accusations of abuse the worse response you can have (regarding your personal career) is to apologize publicly.

Fight or stay silent.

Re: Max Ogden steps down as Dat project lead over sex abuse allegations

#7

Why do people keep apologizing publicly? Do they actually think that helps? For all you guys that are interested in a key insight: once dealing w accusations of abuse the worse response you can have (regarding your personal career) is to apologize publicly. Fight or stay silent.

Maybe people are optimizing for considerations other than their career?

Re: Max Ogden steps down as Dat project lead over sex abuse allegations

#8
So just to check where we are:

If I’m a woman and you’re a man, and I break up with you, I have the right and the power to end your career.

I don’t even need to say anything specific. I don’t need to make any statements that can be verified by anyone. I just have to have been in a relationship with you, and describe that relationship as “controlling” and “abusive.” Without offering any details. And your life, as you knew it, will be over.

Ryszard Kapuscinski in _The Emperor_ describes a (perhaps apocryphal) traditional Ethiopian juridical system. If someone had put a hex on you, a small boy would be blindfolded and brought to the marketplace. The first person he managed to grab would be the witch, whom the crowd would beat to death.

That was a long time ago. Ethiopia has come a long way. Addis Ababa has great weather — maybe the next big startup hub? One can only hope.

Re: Max Ogden steps down as Dat project lead over sex abuse allegations

#9

Why do people keep apologizing publicly? Do they actually think that helps? For all you guys that are interested in a key insight: once dealing w accusations of abuse the worse response you can have (regarding your personal career) is to apologize publicly. Fight or stay silent.

Maybe people are optimizing for considerations other than their career?

The corollary is that integrity is bad for your career.

Re: Max Ogden steps down as Dat project lead over sex abuse allegations

#10

Why do people keep apologizing publicly? Do they actually think that helps? For all you guys that are interested in a key insight: once dealing w accusations of abuse the worse response you can have (regarding your personal career) is to apologize publicly. Fight or stay silent.

So you're advising people who have (admittedly, in this case) engaged in sexual abuse for multiple years to compound the hurt by "fighting", i. e. continuing the emotional abuse, only in public?

How about owning up to your mistakes? Personally, I'd have less of a problem with working with this guy in the near future given his admission, than with someone in a similar situation engaging in public mudslinging or pleading the 5th.

You also have to consider that such behaviour usually follows a pattern, and one accusation is usually not the end of it. Plus, in small, tight-knit communities, you often know the people socially. And its incredibly difficult to completely hide such relationship dynamics. The people you'd need to believe you will be the ones best-positioned to know the truth anyway.

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