On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything • Hacker News Board

Re: On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything

#51

Post by duozerk » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 7:56 PM UTC

ct0 wrote: post #37

duozerk wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has happened on a few occasions (all of them opioids laced with fentanyl by vendors). The community tends to name and shame such vendors a lot when it occurs, and markets will ban them; but the very anonymity linked to the process makes that easy to circumvent, unfortunately. In any case, the general advice to people ordering from vendors for which there hasn't been a longstanding reputation + published reagent…

During the SR era I was a viewer of the network but not a participant. I didnt realize the extent these vendors went to. I had a friend who did know one vendor in person and supposedly he was very very meticulous and calculated with his actions.

Yeah; the largest ones are not single vendors but whole operations with strong opsec: use of separate fully encrypted laptops dedicated to the activity, networks of "senders" that'll roam the country sending the packages from different and random mailboxes, pyramidal networks where a main vendor will sell wholesale to re-sellers (those networks also tend to appear naturally - some DNM vendors are simply selling what they bought wholesale from vendors they never even talked to), preparing the packages themselves in isolated dedicated room and with protection to make sure no DNA is present in the packages, etc. in general I imagine it probably can be a pretty low-risk (but probably not low effort) method of making money illegally, compared to traditional drug dealing. And some vendors must have seen their fortunes explode if they hanged on to at least some of their past gained BTC given the recent price hike.

But then again you also have the (from the point of view of law enforcement) low hanging fruit: vendors that encrypt nothing, keep a full record of all their customers, tend to ship with very bad stealth, etc. those are the ones that tend to get arrested. Fortunately if you're a customer it tends to be easy to pinpoint those vendors - the lack of care and professionalism tends to display itself also in their profile or during simple communications.

Re: On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything

#52

Post by ship_it » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 8:18 PM UTC

ct0 wrote: post #30

md224 wrote: post #20

I think it's a really positive thing that people are able to leave reviews for drug purchases. In the absence of FDA regulation, a public reputation system incentivizes dealers to avoid harming their customers with dangerously-adulterated products. In the midst of an opioid crisis, with people overdosing on heroin cut with fentanyl, having this accountability can save lives. There's a subreddit (whose name I won't me…

Unless trying the product becomes fatal. Wouldn't this be a selection bias?

No. Always test purity of the products before consuming.

Re: On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything

#53

Post by duozerk » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 8:26 PM UTC

ship_it wrote: post #52

ct0 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless trying the product becomes fatal. Wouldn't this be a selection bias?

No. Always test purity of the products before consuming.

And if you can't test it (but you indeed really, really should - and if not easily available to you, a lot of DNM markets also have sellers of reagent tests), at the very least start with minute amounts - and a sitter - before increasing it.

Re: On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything

#54

Post by dukeflukem » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 8:33 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #38

criloz2 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how open source is a communist model, nobody is coerced to publish their code, they do because they want to, even several companies are making some of their source code public for improving the trust that their client has in their product and increase their sales.

It's not capitalism either, because open source developers don't sell code, or write code under pressure of earning a living. They just write it and give it away. Not sure what the right word is, but textbook-definition communism fits - open-source code isn't really owned in practical sense.

My understanding is you have an automatic copyright on the code you create. When you share you can optionally grant a license BSD etc. to let people use that code subject to X. So the code subject is owned.

Re: On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything

#55

Post by slavik81 » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 8:39 PM UTC

inDigiNeous wrote: post #10

It's kinda funny to notice that in the article the writer is describing the stereotype of a drug dealer being untrusted, yet based on my experience and what I've seen, I would rather trust an online drug dealer than for example my bank or the people running our government. That's kinda fucked up right there, won't you say ?

The people I knew who dealt drugs had terrible judgement and repeatedly ended up in jail for stupid shit like getting in fights or trying to intimidate a police officer. I would not put my life in the hands of a person like that.

It's not even that their actions are immoral, it's that their judgement is so poor that you cannot depend on them behaving in their own long-term interest.

Maybe online dealers are different, but I would always worry it's just the same idiots behind a new anonymous account.

Re: On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything

#56

Post by icebraining » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 8:47 PM UTC

valj wrote: post #26

inDigiNeous wrote: post #10

It's kinda funny to notice that in the article the writer is describing the stereotype of a drug dealer being untrusted, yet based on my experience and what I've seen, I would rather trust an online drug dealer than for example my bank or the people running our government. That's kinda fucked up right there, won't you say ?

You're comparing apples with oranges. A drug dealer is a peon, someone at the very bottom of an enormous multinational pyramid who sells a commodity product in a market where every disgruntled customer has the ability to put them behind bars, rather than just leave a bad review online. This is actually the most prime example of an 'untrusted' relationship. If it weren't for the total imbalance of power you have to br…

This is actually the most prime example of an 'untrusted' relationship. If it weren't for the total imbalance of power you have to bring the full force of the government down on a drug dealer without any need for a reason, you wouldn't do business with them at all.

How does a buyer do that on the darknet? Hell, how does the buyer do that on dealer that's part of a well set up network? Do you think cops don't know who many of the dealers are already? They can't or won't touch them, and as a buyer you have zero power to make that happen.

I don't know how's the market where you are, but I can assure you that nobody I know who buys or bought drugs ever even considered going to the cops - even when they got robbed and smacked around by a dealer.

Re: On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything

#57

Post by anigbrowl » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 9:00 PM UTC

nugi wrote: post #44

rosser wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Communism" — the leading capital due to its being the first word in the sentence — is an economic model . "Communism", the Soviet-style phenomenon is not "communism", either in principle, or in practice. Yet we insist on conflating them, and argue against the one whenever the other is mentioned, as if it's synonymous with both.

The problem with both is the same. The benefits are only derived if everyone follows the system, but human nature dictates that will not be the case. The problem is with the nature of what is voluntary. Most homeowners in a non communist country, presumably don't want to leave their home, or join a commune. When you determine everyone MUST participate, the distinction you make evaporates.

It's really hard to make comparisons here because 'homeowners' in Russia and China, which did not have strong middle classes at the time of their revolutions, tended to also be landlords/rentiers. Arguably both of those countries were closer to feudalism than capitalism, and the collectivist policies which ensued were to a large extent responsive to those circumstances.

The problems with the 'voluntary' nature of capitalism are best summed up by Anatole France: How noble the law, in its majestic equality, that both the rich and poor are equally prohibited from peeing in the streets, sleeping under bridges, and stealing bread!

Re: On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything

#58

Post by icebraining » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 9:13 PM UTC

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #40

criloz2 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how open source is a communist model, nobody is coerced to publish their code, they do because they want to, even several companies are making some of their source code public for improving the trust that their client has in their product and increase their sales.

This is wavering off topic, but since it's an intersting topic and you asked, let's do it. Open source is inherently communistic because nobody owns anything. You have control over your own project, but that's where it stops. You cannot force open source maintainers to do something. This is unlike capitalism; at a standard company, your NDA forces you not to disclose secrets. In open source, there are no secrets to d…

I don't think you'll find many libertarians who say people couldn't share property in a community - only that it must be the choice of each individual¹. Which is how open source works - each person decides what to open source, and many even take from open source to create their own proprietary products.

I think the question as a whole doesn't really make sense, since "open source" can't be separated from the whole economies in which it is created.

(¹ communists would object that the choice is often illusory or even non-existent, but that's another issue)

Re: On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything

#59

Post by nostrademons » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 9:21 PM UTC

valj wrote: post #26

inDigiNeous wrote: post #10

It's kinda funny to notice that in the article the writer is describing the stereotype of a drug dealer being untrusted, yet based on my experience and what I've seen, I would rather trust an online drug dealer than for example my bank or the people running our government. That's kinda fucked up right there, won't you say ?

You're comparing apples with oranges. A drug dealer is a peon, someone at the very bottom of an enormous multinational pyramid who sells a commodity product in a market where every disgruntled customer has the ability to put them behind bars, rather than just leave a bad review online. This is actually the most prime example of an 'untrusted' relationship. If it weren't for the total imbalance of power you have to br…

The local bank manager is also a peon.

If you were considering selling your company to Jamie Dimon - well, you can probably trust that he's not going to kill you, but you will show up with an army of lawyers and investment bankers to make sure you get a fair deal.

Re: On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything

#60

Post by scoot » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 9:23 PM UTC

For those that missed it yesterday, Nautilus is on the brink of bankruptcy [1], yet here it is once again with an article featured on the HN frontpage. If you appreciate the content, and are in a position to do so, please consider subscribing.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15977166