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On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything

nautil.us

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Re: On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything

#11

Post by TeMPOraL »

inDigiNeous wrote: post #10

It's kinda funny to notice that in the article the writer is describing the stereotype of a drug dealer being untrusted, yet based on my experience and what I've seen, I would rather trust an online drug dealer than for example my bank or the people running our government. That's kinda fucked up right there, won't you say ?

It's because the incentives of your drug dealer are more aligned with your well-being than the incentives of your bank or government. That's not always the case, but when it happens, even the worst criminal can be a better friend than a legit operation, for which the only reason not to screw you over completely is the potential legal fuss.

Re: On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything

#12

Post by Xeoncross »

joshvm wrote: post #6

It is somewhat amusing that the cocaine in the stock photo costs 0.13BTC at a price of $27. I know people who have bought weed for the equivalent of hundreds of thousands of dollars in today's bitcoin (even post crash). The comment about eBay is interesting - that negative feedback is scarce because people don't bother if they're unhappy. I think one aspect is that it's more difficult to leave a negative review, and…

TL;DR Seller did wrong and it cost _me_ reputation.

I left a neutral feedback one time because of a legitimate seller problem, but otherwise things were fine. The feedback didn't affect his seller score.

The seller left negative retaliation feedback and then offered to have us both unpublished (or something) the feedback so that it didn't affect my reputation.

I learned you don't ever leave negative feedback on ebay.

Re: On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything

#13

Post by Zak »

ringaroundthetx wrote: post #4

What are the latest dark net markets these days anyway and have they gone Monero native yet? 2-of-3 multisig will at least provide software level trust of the escrow process. The reviews on quality of goods would still be important though, but from an enforcement side it will be exponentially more expensive to take down one of these sites. Prior DNM busts typically also got the warchest of everything held in escrow,…

I checked a few sites I found from the list in the sidebar of /r/darknetmarkets. A couple of them allowed paying into their escrow service with Monero, and for vendors to receive Monero, but it looks like they're still fundamentally based on a multisig Bitcoin transaction.

This seems like a mistake to me; I would have expected faster Monero adoption, especially with Bitcoin hitting performance bottlenecks.

Re: On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything

#14

Post by TeMPOraL »

> For instance, on eBay less than 2 percent of all feedback left is negative or neutral. One explanation is that dissatisfied customers are substantially less likely to give feedback. It means the most important information, the negative reputation data, is not being captured.

Can negative feedback on eBay be cancelled? Because if it can be, then I'll give you a much more plausible explanation - sellers bribe customers to revert their negative feedback. This is pretty much standard practice among companies selling on Polish equivalent of eBay/Amazon, Allegro. The bribes are usually heavy discounts and/or free products. Part of the reason this happens is because for a seller, it takes only few negative reviews to lose promoted spots in the service, which can be life-threatening for a small business.

Re: On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything

#15

Post by Zak »

Xeoncross wrote: post #12
joshvm wrote: post #6

It is somewhat amusing that the cocaine in the stock photo costs 0.13BTC at a price of $27. I know people who have bought weed for the equivalent of hundreds of thousands of dollars in today's bitcoin (even post crash). The comment about eBay is interesting - that negative feedback is scarce because people don't bother if they're unhappy. I think one aspect is that it's more difficult to leave a negative review, and…

TL;DR Seller did wrong and it cost _me_ reputation. I left a neutral feedback one time because of a legitimate seller problem, but otherwise things were fine. The feedback didn't affect his seller score. The seller left negative retaliation feedback and then offered to have us both unpublished (or something) the feedback so that it didn't affect my reputation. I learned you don't ever leave negative feedback on ebay.

This would be easy for Ebay to fix: simply don't show feedback until both parties have left feedback, or the time limit for leaving feedback is reached.

Re: On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything

#16

Post by rz2k »

joshvm wrote: post #6

It is somewhat amusing that the cocaine in the stock photo costs 0.13BTC at a price of $27. I know people who have bought weed for the equivalent of hundreds of thousands of dollars in today's bitcoin (even post crash). The comment about eBay is interesting - that negative feedback is scarce because people don't bother if they're unhappy. I think one aspect is that it's more difficult to leave a negative review, and…

I think the past norm was for sellers to leave positive feedback when they received money, and for buyers to leave positive feedback when they received a product that was accurately described.

I have had good experiences buying and selling large items like computers on eBay, but I don't like the new practice of sellers withholding feedback until they get positive feedback.

Re: On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything

#17

Post by cgh »

inDigiNeous wrote: post #10

It's kinda funny to notice that in the article the writer is describing the stereotype of a drug dealer being untrusted, yet based on my experience and what I've seen, I would rather trust an online drug dealer than for example my bank or the people running our government. That's kinda fucked up right there, won't you say ?

It's having "skin in the game", in the sense that Nassim Taleb uses the phrase. The trust goes both ways and both of your reputations are more or less equally at stake. With a bank, the stakes are not symmetrical.

Re: On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything

#18

Post by iamthirsty »

setheron wrote: post #3
iamthirsty wrote: post #2

So...just like real life drug/arms dealers? Shocking.

No.... You buy from a dealer in a club or somewhere else -- there is no reputation. I feel like you didn't get the whole gist of the article? Would you buy a toaster oven from someones cargo van on the side of the road in a shady street or prefer to purchase it form Amazon?

> No.... You buy from a dealer in a club or somewhere else

Have you ever bought drugs? When you move to things like pills, and don't have the ability to test yourself, the dealers reputation or trust with you is paramount.

Re: On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything

#19

Post by sillysaurus3 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #11
inDigiNeous wrote: post #10

It's kinda funny to notice that in the article the writer is describing the stereotype of a drug dealer being untrusted, yet based on my experience and what I've seen, I would rather trust an online drug dealer than for example my bank or the people running our government. That's kinda fucked up right there, won't you say ?

It's because the incentives of your drug dealer are more aligned with your well-being than the incentives of your bank or government. That's not always the case, but when it happens, even the worst criminal can be a better friend than a legit operation, for which the only reason not to screw you over completely is the potential legal fuss.

This is one argument against capitalism as a whole, and it's worth taking seriously. Capitalism is still the best tool we have, but it's not without downsides.

Example: open source is the communist model, and it works very well. To each according to their need, from each according to their ability. No one owns anything, and you're free to fork or vote with your feet.

Ditto for illegal drug markets. If you're unhappy as a merchant, you have a number of options. No one owns you. You can switch to a different market, or start your own (if you're suicidally ambitious).

The interesting part is that the drug markets end up combining the best of both capitalism and communism in that sense.

But only in that sense. Obviously, unregulated drugs are risky. Yet even without regulations, it's remarkable how rare it is to hear about unhappy customers.

Re: On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything

#20

Post by md224 »

I think it's a really positive thing that people are able to leave reviews for drug purchases. In the absence of FDA regulation, a public reputation system incentivizes dealers to avoid harming their customers with dangerously-adulterated products.

In the midst of an opioid crisis, with people overdosing on heroin cut with fentanyl, having this accountability can save lives. There's a subreddit (whose name I won't mention) that facilitates meetups between opioid sellers and users, encouraging buyers to leave feedback once the meetup is complete. I'm glad it exists.

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