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Bitcoin and almost every other cryptocurrency crashed hard today

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Re: Bitcoin and almost every other cryptocurrency crashed hard today

#261

Post by em3rgent0rdr »

apcragg wrote: post #170
bogomipz wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"- not rare" Its not a commodity it's a currency. Why does it need to be "rare"? The US dollar is also not backed by anything "rare" and hasn't been since Nixon abandoned the gold standard in 1973. >"didn't have any government backing or big institutional backing in case the price dropped from 19,000 to 11,000" You realize this is the exact reason it was created right? That's the whole point. It's not coincidence th…

The dollar is essentially backed by oil and the fact that it's needed to trade with the largest economy in the world, not to mention the country with the largest military.

Sure those things help give value to the dollar by increasing its demand. Whether of not this constitutes "backing" depends on the definition of backing. There is no underlying asset that directly backs the dollar, which is the whole point of fiat currencies.

The fundamental source of demand is the requirement that US Taxes must be paid in dollars. The utility of using dollars to trade with the US economy is simply a consequence of this fact.

Re: Bitcoin and almost every other cryptocurrency crashed hard today

#262

Post by stemc43 »

55555 wrote: post #147
bsaul wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you consider a "bottom" price for bitcoin ? or a "high" price ? This thing has no possible valuation, because it has no utility, no intrinsic value. The whole thing is just crazy.

> it has no utility People buy drugs with it. People evade tax with it. People evade currency controls with it. When will people stop making this crazy false claim?

can confirm. I buy all my drugs with it

Re: Bitcoin and almost every other cryptocurrency crashed hard today

#263

Post by spraak »

aviv wrote: post #122
carry_bit wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin itself is rare, but cryptocurrency as a whole is not because it's easy to create another blockchain.

This right there is exactly why long term it's doomed and cannot be a reliable store of value. You don't see banks and random geeks inventing new precious metals out of thin air. So you have gold, silver, platinum and palladium and that's about it as far as store of values are concerned.

Those metals are only valuable because because people agree that they are. The price of gold etc. is just as inherently meaningless as BTC etc.

Re: Bitcoin and almost every other cryptocurrency crashed hard today

#264

Post by soneil »

24gttghh wrote: post #56

Ha! I needed a good laugh this morning. Thanks internet. What I don't get, is how do these prices actually change? For btc or a stock. The mechanism seems very voodoo.

"price" doesn't really describe this concept well. It's more like .. trying to judge the value of your laptop, by looking at what identical models have sold for on ebay.

This is where the "supply vs demand" adage comes in. If there's 1000 copies of your laptop on ebay, and one person trying to buy one, then its a buyer's marker - the cheapest auction sells, and the market value of your laptop just fell.

But if there's thousands of people trying to buy one or two copies of your laptop, then its a seller's market - the highest bidders get their laptops, and the market value of your laptop rises.

So (ignoring deprecation/inflation) your laptop didn't actually change. Its intrinsic value, if any, didn't change. But the market's position towards your laptop did, and how much you believe it'd fetch at auction right now, did.

Re: Bitcoin and almost every other cryptocurrency crashed hard today

#265

Post by Mankhool »

apcragg wrote: post #170
bogomipz wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"- not rare" Its not a commodity it's a currency. Why does it need to be "rare"? The US dollar is also not backed by anything "rare" and hasn't been since Nixon abandoned the gold standard in 1973. >"didn't have any government backing or big institutional backing in case the price dropped from 19,000 to 11,000" You realize this is the exact reason it was created right? That's the whole point. It's not coincidence th…

The dollar is essentially backed by oil and the fact that it's needed to trade with the largest economy in the world, not to mention the country with the largest military.

The dollar is essentially not backed by anything - except debt.

Re: Bitcoin and almost every other cryptocurrency crashed hard today

#266

Post by api »

htormey wrote: post #51

I do mobile software consulting. To give you an idea of the level of crypto currency mania: Every single one of my clients in San Francisco have some kind of slack or group chat devoted to crypto trading. I was waiting at the front desk of a client who has a floor in a fancy building downtown. Whilst waiting I overheard the end of a conversation between the door guy talking to the maintanence man: “I put in a bunch o…

This is a sell signal if I ever saw one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fnj0UG9biLc

It's been in the silly phase of bubble for a while now.

Re: Bitcoin and almost every other cryptocurrency crashed hard today

#267

Post by FollowSteph3 »

I think the bubble is starting to burst. When just adding something related to crypto currencies in your company name can result in a 500% stock increase https://www.marketwatch.com/story/long-island-iced-teas-stoc... you there is a bubble. That like adding dot com in the dot com bubble or a tech sounding name in the early 80’s.

Re: Bitcoin and almost every other cryptocurrency crashed hard today

#268

Post by agarden »

jcranmer wrote: post #226
monocasa wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a big piece of gold's value is that it's been a store of value for longer than recorded history. Hell, if the world went belly up, Mad Max style, there's a good chance that whatever gold you have would be worth even more.

Serious question: what value would gold have in a post-apocalyptic world? If I'm selling something, why should I take gold in exchange for it, instead of something useful, like ammunition or food or water?

If I were convinced the apocalypse were going to happen in the next couple years, I would start storing up ramen noodles, Hersheys chocolate bars, and M&Ms. Cheap to purchase, easy to store, and likely to have astronomic value post-apocalypse.

Re: Bitcoin and almost every other cryptocurrency crashed hard today

#269

Post by SippinLean »

sowbug wrote: post #207
djsumdog wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is buying coin? Like if you seriously found 3 BTC you had on an old hard drive from years ago, remembered that password, who would pay you the $30k? You'd have to try different exchanges, try small amounts first, pay the insane transaction fees and wait for confirmation. Anyone who truly had a huge stash of like 400k USD in BTC would need to grab a lawyer, an escrow company and enter into a pretty strict legal co…

Your numbers are off by more than a factor of 1,000. As of a couple days ago, you could liquidate $30M (not $30K) on GDAX with a market sell order (which would be the worst possible way to sell) for more than 95% of last-quoted price.

What would be a better way to sell?

Re: Bitcoin and almost every other cryptocurrency crashed hard today

#270

Post by hbosch »

candiodari wrote: post #219
tdees40 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the dollar also has a very long history of being extremely stable. Said another way, the dollar has never had a 30% shock in a year (BTC did today...)

By what standard, exactly ? The dollar certainly has had 30% "shocks" in a year compared to gold, which is the usual standard. Most famously, obviously, 1971, but there have been more normal years with such changes as well. You could also say that the US dollar is really backed by the US economy. Well, the US economy is S&P500 + a few percentage points. Well that has dropped, and gained more than 30% in a year as wel…

Yes but will they happen 4 or 5 times a year, as with bitcoin?
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